The History of Pure Breeds - Page 4 - The Horse Forum

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post #31 of 176 Old 08-16-2011, 09:10 PM
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How many years back to records of parentage of arabs go?

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post #32 of 176 Old 08-16-2011, 10:10 PM
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Quite frankly the pedigrees of any horse breed prior to the advent of DNA testing and parentage verification are extremely unreliable and untrustworthy.

Found this in regards to Arabians:

Over time, the Bedouin developed several sub-types or strains of Arabian horse, each with unique characteristics, and traced through the maternal line only. According to the Arabian Horse Association, the five primary strains were known as the Keheilan, Seglawi, Abeyan, Hamdani and Hadban. Carl Raswan, a promoter and writer about Arabian horses from the middle of the 20th century, held the belief that there were only three strains, Kehilan, Seglawi and Muniqi. Raswan felt that these strains represented body "types" of the breed, with the Kehilan being "masculine", the Seglawi being "feminine" and the Muniqi being "speedy". There were also lesser strains, sub-strains, and regional variations in strain names. Therefore, many Arabian horses were not only Asil, of pure blood, but also bred to be pure in strain, with crossbreeding between strains discouraged, by some tribes. Purity of bloodline was very important to the Bedouin, and they also believed in telegony, believing if a mare was ever bred to a stallion of "impure" blood, the mare herself and all future offspring would be "contaminated" by the stallion and hence no longer Asil.


So according to that, wouldn't most if not all modern Arabians no longer be considered "pure?"

Arabian horse history
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post #33 of 176 Old 08-17-2011, 05:54 AM
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Yall are working extremely hard to discredit the arabian horses.

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post #34 of 176 Old 08-17-2011, 07:03 AM
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Yall are working extremely hard to discredit the arabian horses.
Not at all, and that is a rather shallow observation. I like Arabs myself, and obviously used them in my Araloosa breeding program to produce some of the best endurance trail horses there are.

But I get weary of the fantasy world approach some people have about Arabs, cramming fairy tales down people's throats. They are what they are, and to accept them for what they are is not discrediting anything.

What they ARE is a good horse and the most popular horse breed in the world, excelling at endurance coupled with reasonable performance ability. They are extremely aesthetic and invoke a picture of what most of us think as the "classic" horse. They are very smart and easy keepers, able to survive on just about anything. They are hardy, and have strong hooves, bone, and joints. That is hardly discrediting them.

What they ARE NOT is a horse that jumped off the page of a fairy tale book. They are NOT the origin of all breeds as I explained earlier...they are an intermediate breed - as most breeds are. They are NOT pure in blood as so often represented by the uninformed, although they are certainly more pure than almost all - or perhaps all - other breeds. They have NOT been used to "improve" the breeds of the world - quite the contrary, they and their desert cousins are base breeds that helped found more modern breeds and from which improvements have been made to create other breeds better at speed, strength, and performance. That whole "improving other breeds" line of thought is totallly illogical to begin with. Again, is the glass half full or half empty. While introducing more Arab blood into a Quarterhorse would improve endurance, introducing Quarterhorse blood into an Arab would improve speed and performance. To suggest that the former is "improving" the breed and the latter isn't is irrational and illogical.

Again, I like Arabs myself. They are good versatile horses and have a long, rich history. But they are flesh and blood horses - not mythical, ethereal unicorns with wings of gold, and there is nothing discrediting about seeing and accepting them for what they are...
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post #35 of 176 Old 08-17-2011, 08:06 AM
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Well thanks for taking the trouble to surf the net a bit and prove my point. As I said, horses are indigenous to North America, and all horses originated from North American stock.

And by the way, horses have not changed consequentially in 15,000 years other than being tampered with by man. The horse of 15,000 years ago was an Equus just as today - otherwise known as a modern horse. Once again, if you are going to use history, use all of it - not just enough to accomplish your agenda. Heck, if you want to carry it to the extreme, your Arabs are not "modern" horses in the literal sense of the word as they are a very old breed.

My overall point, and it is true, is that the perception that Arabian horses are the root of everything is completely false...Arabs have their roots in other breeds just as all horses do. Just because those breeds are no longer around is not relevant.

Arabs are not the beginning, nor are they the end. Is the glass half full or is it half empty? Is the Arab used to improve other breeds as you say, or have Arabs been refined to become faster and stronger by mixing in other breeds to develop Thoroughbreds, Quarterhorses, and others that are far superior at their given task than Arabs?
Well. Apparently you missed mine. Being rude and arguing for arguing's sake is pointless. I'm sure there are others out there that can separate prehistoric horse and modern horse, and the fact that modern horse was re-introduced to the Americas- they were not indigenous. They were hardly what roamed the planet eons ago.

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post #36 of 176 Old 08-17-2011, 08:29 AM
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Well. Apparently you missed mine. Being rude and arguing for arguing's sake is pointless. I'm sure there are others out there that can separate prehistoric horse and modern horse, and the fact that modern horse was re-introduced to the Americas- they were not indigenous. They were hardly what roamed the planet eons ago.
No offense, but you are out of your element. As I said, the horse of 15,000 years ago (which is not "eons" ago, but a blink of the eye when it comes to evolution) was a modern horse. If you refuse to believe that, then you know nothing of horse history or the natural sciences, and are ignoring physical evidence and documented history. Heck, Arabians are thought to date back to almost 5,000 years ago themselves. Why not try to learn for a change and expand your knowledge rather than blindly insisting the world is flat because you don't want to admit you are wrong. You don't have to take my word for it and I don't expect you to - research it...anywhere...
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post #37 of 176 Old 08-17-2011, 08:32 AM
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introducing Quarterhorse blood into an Arab would improve speed and performance.
What exactly makes you think that introducing QH to Arabian would improve the Arabian speed and performance?
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post #38 of 176 Old 08-17-2011, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by LuvMyPerlinoQH View Post
Yall are working extremely hard to discredit the arabian horses.
I haven't seen any discrediting here. Most of info is just what google gives us anyway.

BTW, I did search myself yesterday out of curiosity, and I found some research stating Akhal Tekes may be older than Arabs and were used in developing/improving bunch of other breeds as well. So it's an interesting question I have to say. I believe they are also more "pure" and don't have much variety as Arabs do.

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post #39 of 176 Old 08-17-2011, 09:47 AM
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Yall are working extremely hard to discredit the arabian horses.
Not me. I love them. It was an honest question.

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post #40 of 176 Old 08-17-2011, 10:01 AM
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Well. Apparently you missed mine. Being rude and arguing for arguing's sake is pointless. I'm sure there are others out there that can separate prehistoric horse and modern horse, and the fact that modern horse was re-introduced to the Americas- they were not indigenous. They were hardly what roamed the planet eons ago.

Ha but I'm shallow I guess lol

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