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The horse market these days

This is a discussion on The horse market these days within the Horse Breeds forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

     
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        02-05-2008, 06:49 PM
      #21
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by upnover
    1) I knew slaughter would come up when I saw this thread!

    2) And like someone else said, here comes little Susie who wants a pony and her completely inexperienced parents think it's a great idea to give her a baby so they can "learn together".

    3) People aren't buying the trained horses because who wants to pay $5000 when you can get one for $50? WAYYYYY too many horses out there. Supply is bigger then demand.

    4) I'm not sure if this is as common in other countries. But I know in other countries they actually regulating breeding (increase quality, decrease sheer numbers). Something the US needs to think about.
    1) I don't think it is a problem that slaughter comes up in the conversations as long as we don't get too graphic or offensive with the way we approach talking about it.

    2) That really is a big problem. I don't know how many people I have heard of or seen that decided to get horses because of some romantic idea they had about it...not knowing at all what they were getting into. It really does seem that the less experienced don't realize how much work and experience it takes to raise a weanling - not something for little "Susie" to do.

    3) This is where I think some sort of education needs to play a role. In most cases people need to be spending the $3-5,000 to buy the trained horse because that is what they have the experience for. I am sure many (not all) people who pick up those $50 auction horses are those same people who throw them all out in a pasture together (mares and stallions), despite crummy conformation, lack of papers, etc.. Many of the other people who pick up the $50 auction horses are those with too little experience to handle such a horse...maybe the case of little Susie again..."what a perfect gift for only $50 dollars" - they don't understand the bigger picture. Education of some sort could play a role for possible horse owners as well as current horse owners to help them find a horse that fits their ability and lifestyle rather than just the cheapest thing out there. Again, the cost of horses is not the initial cost, but the feed, care, and training over the years. People need to understand that. Also, you get what you pay for in many cases. Many of those $50 horses will take $$$ to train or put back into health. I feel for the people trying to sale quality, trained horses.

    4) If over-saturation of the horse market is not a problem in other countries, I want to know what is done differently? How do they make it work? How do they prevent the back yard breeders and Joe off the street from just breeding what ever in mass quantities? What can we learn from countries that do not have this problem? How could we put something similar into action?

    Again, it is easy to complain and feel crummy about this situation, (especially when you are the one trying to sale a nice horse and can't get anything for it). But, I feel better if I can discuss possible solutions...who knows, maybe one day, one or more of our brilliant horse forum ideas will be put into action. :)
         
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        02-05-2008, 07:47 PM
      #22
    Trained
    I watch Animal Cops Houston a lot, and I've noticed a lot of the younger horses (yearlings and such) are being adopted out for someone's little kid, so they can grow up with it. Not a lot of these horses that are rescued are neglected or abused, and they can be iffy, so I have a feeling horses that mom and dad got for "Susie" from places like that are too much for anyone to handle and they get passed on.

    Don't get me wrong, people that rescue or adopt horses are wonderful people, but the younger ones go first and usually go to inexperienced people
         
        02-06-2008, 12:52 AM
      #23
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AKPaintLover
    The Fugly person definitely is mean, but I have been sickeningly drawn to read the blog every couple of days regardless :) As a side effect I have actually leaned a lot and been clued into a horse problem that I was really unaware of.

    Jazzy,
    That is interesting about this not being a problem where you are...I wonder where the difference is?? I am sure people would be just as capable of over-breeding without knowing what they are doing, and yet, the problem is not really there....
    i don't know what the difference here is. I suppose for starters from what I can gather, horses and animals in general are viewed a little differently over here. I don't mean to say that no one in the states loves their horses it just seems that they are viewed differently. Hmmm, that sounds bad. While we have people here who don't treat their horses the best, there seems to be more respect for horses and less of a desire to randomly breed.

    Taking a horse to the abbatoirs usually isnt even something that is considered unless you are part of the small percentage of people who just don't care. And because we don't see huge trucks full of horses heading for slaughter it just isnt something that is part of every day routine. I think there are only a couple of abbatoirs in the country and in a lot of cases the majority of horses that go in the truck to the abbatoirs are actually sold before they are put down.

    Its really hard to actually pin point the difference apart from how the people view the horses. That's the only thing that really can differ I think. Im very proud that we don't have this problem in my country and that we can happily have next no abbatoirs with so little happening in them that you never ever hear of them. I've also heard that they are treated better here. I used to drive past one of them every day and all the horses there were in paddocks with grass and water. A friends brother worked there and said they are all done away with by a bullet to the brain. He said there is rarely, if ever, any complications.

    Maybe just different culture is the answer?? Who knows but I hope the issues can start to become sorted over there.
         
        02-06-2008, 03:41 AM
      #24
    Yearling
    Jazzy,
    I hope it gets sorted out too.

    Are horses fairly expensive to keep over there? Do most have to be boarded? I am trying to figure out if that has something to do with the difference.

    Living in Alaska, I sometimes feel like I am in another country because things are just so different here. There is a good bit of locally grown hay, but we also have to have a lot of hay shipped into the state. We don't have auctions. We don't have kill buyers (as far as I know of). We do have some back yard breeders, but feeding and weather has to be thought about so much here that I think it is less common.

    Our horses' prices are affected by this overpopulated market, but not to the point of horses selling for $50. If a horse would go for $5,000 in the past, it might sell for 4 now. If it would go for $3,000 in the past, it might go for $2,000 now. This is because with the market how it is in the states, people can buy a pretty good horse (there is much more to choose from), and pay $2000 to have it brought up - not everyone wants to do that though.

    As an example, I bought my grade morgan/QH gelding 5 years ago for $2,200 as a 3 year old. A couple hundred in the states if lucky? Two years ago when I was going to sell him (before I found his favorite new girl to lease him), I got many calls on him priced at $4,000 (which I turned away because he was already leased). In the states, I would have been lucky to get close to $1,000.

    I just looked in our horse journal's classified section, and basically everything selling was registered and priced between $3,500 and 7,000.

    One ad includes:Just arrived from Indiana, 3 yr old Tobiano mare w/ 1 blue eye. Sire Let There Be Light from Sir Quincy Dan. BIG & TALL. Very sweet. 30 days training. $4700 I wonder what she sold for in Indiana? She is pretty cute, but her ad photo is pretty bad.

    Another horse that sold:16hh 8yr old AQHA gelding. Experience in english, western, barrel racing, jumping, dressage & trails. Lots of professional training, some show experience. Very sound! Clips, bathes, shoes, loads. Beautiful mover! $7000. Is that even comparable to what a horse like that would sell for in the states? (I am not sure of what well trained horses are going for)

    To sum up, I don't think we are being hit with the same level of problem as the other states, but I worry that if things continue on the path they are on, it will start to affect us much worse.

    At the prices above, I don't think we have to worry about kill buyers, but I am still very interested in the topic and want to say up on the problems. I really do hope some good solutions are found soon. Anyway, I would really like to figure out what factor causes the difference in the horse market between the states and then places like where Jazzy or I live. :)
         
        02-06-2008, 06:15 AM
      #25
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AKPaintLover
    Jazzy,
    I hope it gets sorted out too.

    Are horses fairly expensive to keep over there? Do most have to be boarded? I am trying to figure out if that has something to do with the difference.

    Living in Alaska, I sometimes feel like I am in another country because things are just so different here. There is a good bit of locally grown hay, but we also have to have a lot of hay shipped into the state. We don't have auctions. We don't have kill buyers (as far as I know of). We do have some back yard breeders, but feeding and weather has to be thought about so much here that I think it is less common.

    Our horses' prices are affected by this overpopulated market, but not to the point of horses selling for $50. If a horse would go for $5,000 in the past, it might sell for 4 now. If it would go for $3,000 in the past, it might go for $2,000 now. This is because with the market how it is in the states, people can buy a pretty good horse (there is much more to choose from), and pay $2000 to have it brought up - not everyone wants to do that though.

    As an example, I bought my grade morgan/qh gelding 5 years ago for $2,200 as a 3 year old. A couple hundred in the states if lucky? Two years ago when I was going to sell him (before I found his favorite new girl to lease him), I got many calls on him priced at $4,000 (which I turned away because he was already leased). In the states, I would have been lucky to get close to $1,000.

    I just looked in our horse journal's classified section, and basically everything selling was registered and priced between $3,500 and 7,000.

    One ad includes:Just arrived from Indiana, 3 yr old Tobiano mare w/ 1 blue eye. Sire Let There Be Light from Sir Quincy Dan. BIG & TALL. Very sweet. 30 days training. $4700 I wonder what she sold for in Indiana? She is pretty cute, but her ad photo is pretty bad.

    Another horse that sold:16hh 8yr old aqha gelding. Experience in english, western, barrel racing, jumping, dressage & trails. Lots of professional training, some show experience. Very sound! Clips, bathes, shoes, loads. Beautiful mover! $7000. Is that even comparable to what a horse like that would sell for in the states? (I am not sure of what well trained horses are going for)

    To sum up, I don't think we are being hit with the same level of problem as the other states, but I worry that if things continue on the path they are on, it will start to affect us much worse.

    At the prices above, I don't think we have to worry about kill buyers, but I am still very interested in the topic and want to say up on the problems. I really do hope some good solutions are found soon. Anyway, I would really like to figure out what factor causes the difference in the horse market between the states and then places like where Jazzy or I live. :)
    well it depends what you want to do. While boarding is kinda popular, it isnt as popular as pony club agistment or other agistment. Most people look after their own horses.

    I board at a pony club and it costs me $11 per week per horse. Hay is around $15 a bale but there are many people around selling good hay for $10-11 a bale. Round bales are also popular and they are usually only around $60 each. Bags of pellets is between $14 - $25, rice bran $30, lucerne chaffe $35. Is not too badly priced for feed unless you have tonnes of horses

    Worming is around $10-$20 per horse for the paste. Farriers are around $40 for a trim.

    Its not too bad considering I've heard other countries are very expensive
         
        02-06-2008, 09:05 AM
      #26
    Showing
    I think there are several factors effecting the horse market in the states. #1 being the closing of the horse slaughter. The second being the cost and availability of feed. Hay in my area has gone for $50 a ton to $145+ a ton. I'm sure due to drought conditions in some areas and the cost of fuel to get the hay. Also the price of corn has skyrocketed because of the demand in ethanol, and of course the cost of fuel to grow/harvest. Many breeders who were on the edge financially have had to sell their herds adding an additional strain on the market.
    I don't think it is just one single thing that has caused the dip in horse prices but a culmanation of things. The economy being a big factor too. While we teeter on a recession, the first thing to go for most familys will be the horse.
         
        02-06-2008, 11:13 AM
      #27
    Yearling
    Re: The horse market these days

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AKPaintLover

    How do you think prices of horses can get SO low?
    supply and demand. No one is buying, so prices drop

    How does the market get so flooded with horses that cannot be supported?
    Too many backyard breeders, too many people breeding period! And not enough people buying

    How do so many untrained horses end up out there?
    Inexperienced people breeding. People who are looking to move the horse fast for the profit.

    Why do people breed so many more horses than they could possibly ever train or hire staff to train themselves..sending them into the market with little chance?
    $$$$

    What, if anything can be done about the flooded horse market on a large scale basis (in theory anyway)?
    Sadly, I am not sure what can be done on a large scale. Unless the government steps in and regulates breeding.

    What can be done on a small scale basis?
    Everyone needs to take some personal responsibility. As much as I would love to breed my mare and get a foal from her... I wont. Why? Because of the over population problem. No on NEEDS to breed their mare. I don't care if she has awesome bloodlines or is hella fast. There are plenty of fast, excellent bloodline horses out there already in need of a home. There are foals being abandoned at auction houses. Healthy foals. Fast, excellent bloodlined horses are being bought by Kill Buyers for slaughter. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

    Is this a problem everywhere (countries)?
    I believe so.

    Will this problem be around for a long time?
    Yes.

    I am also interested to hear if anyone has gotten one or more of their horses from auction, and what kind of an experience that was?? It seems like there are some real gems that go through those auctions very cheap!
    I am in the process of buying a small farm. When I do, I plan to go to New Holland Horse Auction in PA (its a horrible place) and buy a draft and a mini (or two).

    One theme I saw on the auction report was young, untrained, broodmare, or lame. I saw that there were both grade and registered horses, there were QHs, paints, tb, percheron, and others.


    Is there a breed that ends up at auction more than others?
    if so, why?
    I have noticed a lot of drafts and off track Thoroughbreds at auction. Obvious reasons are: Amish selling a draft and trainers/owners selling OTTB that can't race anymore or arent "fast enough".


    When we have members having a hard time selling good horses for less than $1000, I think that is ridiculous....good horses should cost in the thousands of dollars...they are a luxury, and cost a lot to care for. How does this happen??
    Again, supply and demand. The market is flooded.

    How can private horse sellers compete with auctions that sell horses between $10 and $300 without blinking?
    Until there are less abandoned horses, horses that no one wants... the market for selling a horse will be low.

    Right now, a lot of people can't afford to support themselves, let alone horses. The economy is really bad, Our country is a financial mess. Hay costs, energy costs, fuel costs, unemployment is rampant... people are losing their farms, homes, jobs, livestock.
         
        02-06-2008, 11:18 AM
      #28
    Showing
    Quote:
    i board at a pony club and it costs me $11 per week per horse
    Wow. I wish! Where I live (Western Canada) board at a facility where you can actually trust your horses at runs around $300/month. I wish we had boarding facilities like yours!!

    As stated before, I highly doubt it was just one thing that sparked such a huge slump in the economy, but rather an acumulation of things.

    If we were able to regluate breeding somehow that would be ideal. A good portion of this is due to all the Joe Blows out there that send their "unmature" 2 year old stallion out with their herd of mares and "whoopsie" 11 months later... foals! Who knew??

    And why privately buy a trained $7000 horse when you can go to a sale and get (almost) the same horse for $500? Unfortunately, that seems to be the case right now.
         
        02-06-2008, 03:27 PM
      #29
    Yearling
    So, what I am thinking is that the increase in hay prices has not affected us up here as badly yet because we are used to paying an arm and leg for everything horse.

    Our local hay used to go for about $250 a ton and is up to probably about $280 or so. Out of state hay is well over $300 a ton.

    Board at most places is at least $300 if you get a GOOD deal. $375 is more common, and in some places in the state it will range between $475 and $600 for one horse/month.

    People here would pay $7000 for a good horse because the market is limited up here and there are not sales. Bringing a horse up is $2000, so some do buy a good horse out of state and bring them up.

    I don't know why I didn't really think about it, but the economy and the oil crisis is probably a huge factor.
         
        02-06-2008, 03:49 PM
      #30
    Started
    Board prices are very similar in Virginia, AK.

    I think hay prices (at least on the east coast) are being affected by the drought and definitely the price of oil as well, you're right about that. Local hay is almost non-existent (ours came from Kansas!).
         

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