Indian War Pony - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 51 Old 05-29-2012, 06:26 PM
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As I stated, it is a great story. I know the Kuntz’s, too. Did the people that claim to know the Kuntz’s tell you about the hundreds of horses they sell to the "kill buyers"? Bet not. Yes, many know the names of the kill buyers who do biz with them.


I am well aware of the people that "drink the kool-aid" and go “facts” will get in their way. Many big money supporters have left after learning the truth. It just takes some longer than others.

As to the money, maybe they should get a job - oops - selling the story is their job since 1999.

Just for the record, the BLM has nothing to do with these horses. They are under the control of the National Park Service.

Horses are shot if they are turned into the Park, as was done within recent times.

You can have the last word as I am sure, like others, you do not want the facts in the way.
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post #22 of 51 Old 05-29-2012, 06:31 PM
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"but they deffinitely are Plains tribes horses with a lot of spanish influence."

Where is the proof? There is none! Even the Kuntz/Nokota do not state this anymore. They are a mix of many - do the DNA. As to Spanish influence, many beleive ALL horses in the USA have the Spanish influence .
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post #23 of 51 Old 05-29-2012, 06:35 PM
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Okay no I didn't know that. I am pretty new to the breed and what i do know i have heard generally from a few places. So books, web and people.. But i think either way these horses are unique and should be saved. But i guess now all that can be done is to decide what to believe.
And im not trying to have the last word, really just want the right facts

Quote:
Originally Posted by walkwavy View Post

As I stated, it is a great story. I know the Kuntz’s, too. Did the people that claim to know the Kuntz’s tell you about the hundreds of horses they sell to the "kill buyers"? Bet not. Yes, many know the names of the kill buyers who do biz with them.

I am well aware of the people that "drink the kool-aid" and go “facts” will get in their way. Many big money supporters have left after learning the truth. It just takes some longer than others.

As to the money, maybe they should get a job - oops - selling the story is their job since 1999.

Just for the record, the BLM has nothing to do with these horses. They are under the control of the National Park Service.

Horses are shot if they are turned into the Park, as was done within recent times.

You can have the last word as I am sure, like others, you do not want the facts in the way.
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post #24 of 51 Old 05-29-2012, 06:47 PM
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Sorry but I do want to let you know that I fully agree with you that these horse are very unique and smart. Yes they should be saved. There is another roundup at the Park in Oct 2013 and they will be sold to the highest bidder at auction. Sad but that is a FACT!
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post #25 of 51 Old 05-30-2012, 05:54 PM
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I wish I could go to it. I am across the border so I can't...
And actually not to disagree with you, but I think really mainly only native horses and ones like Paso Finos have spanish influence... Quarter Horses trace to thoroughbreds and arabs, and thoroughbreds are european, same with most warmbloods. The only horses I question are gaited ones
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post #26 of 51 Old 05-30-2012, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokotaheaven View Post
I wish I could go to it. I am across the border so I can't...
And actually not to disagree with you, but I think really mainly only native horses and ones like Paso Finos have spanish influence... Quarter Horses trace to thoroughbreds and arabs, and thoroughbreds are european, same with most warmbloods. The only horses I question are gaited ones
Not true...mustangs were the last ingredient added to make Quarterhorses as we know them today, and Mustangs of course have Spanish influence...
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post #27 of 51 Old 05-30-2012, 06:22 PM
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Ahh Idk. Maybe some, but a large number not. Ive had two full QHs, plus one half QH, and none of them even came close to mustangs in their blood. they all traced back to thoroughbreds and the founding arabians
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post #28 of 51 Old 05-30-2012, 07:02 PM
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This thread has been an interesting read, thanks for the insight walkwavy

Nokota would you care to share the pedigrees of these horses? The early development of the quarter horse involved crossing thoroughbreds with local North American horses - of Spanish descent. Look at any QH pedigree and you'll see the thoroughbred influence, as well as a some dead ends indicative of these local horses. If your horses are of 100% thoroughbred descent then I don't believe they are registerable as AQHA.
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post #29 of 51 Old 05-30-2012, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokotaheaven View Post
Ahh Idk. Maybe some, but a large number not. Ive had two full QHs, plus one half QH, and none of them even came close to mustangs in their blood. they all traced back to thoroughbreds and the founding arabians
Well, if you won't take my word for it, then perhaps you will take AQHA's word... AQHA: Breed History

If you are going to debate breed history you should brush up a bit...
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post #30 of 51 Old 05-30-2012, 07:46 PM
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There were no horses in North America until the Europeans arrived. Therefore, it makes sense that the overwhelming majority of horses the Indians had access to depend on the Europeans who settled/conquered that particular region. Spanish horses were likely prevalent across the south and west of the continent, English on the East coast, French in the midwest, etc. Some of the horses could certainly be considered mustangs, as some were escaped horses. Many more were acquired in trade or taken in battle, though.

I think it takes a lot of time and foundation stock to truly develop a breed, and most Indian tribes simply didn't have enough of either of those to really do that. If anything, I'd say they are probably more like selectively bred mustangs (i.e. "mutts" of various European strains) than anything else, ultimately coming from the same stock, even if some never were feral.

As any breeder can tell you, some traits are easier to selectively breed for than others. Color, in particular, can make it seem like a breed is/was established, but a breed needs to also have consistency in conformation, temperament, and a wide enough gene pool to avoid inbreeding.
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