Looking to buy a 'Gypsy Cob'? - The Horse Forum

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post #1 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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Looking to buy a 'Gypsy Cob'?

Anyone looking to buy one of these imported from the UK may be interested in these links

(1) An apparently genuine exporter Welsh Gypsy Horses

(2) How he REALLY operates BBC News - Horse trader Tom Price jailed for cruelty and Asbo breach

Just sayin'.

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post #2 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 04:14 PM
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Rather old news, I'm afraid. Most of us have been following this breeder and his problems in caring properly for his huge herds, for several years now. Good of course, that he is finally being held accountable for his actions. Unfortunately, he still has a certain 'following' who refuse to even think he might be responsible for so many loose horses, being set free during winter months, or the overbreeding which caused far too many horses to be produced each year and of course, the fact that many have actually starved to death.

Has he owned and bred some truly incredibly good horses in the breed in the past? An absolute yes. However, those few, will never make up for the hundreds so cruelly treated.

Lizzie
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post #3 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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His main problem was losing access to the European slaughter horse market for some reason - I think there's something we're not being told. That's where all the rubbish he produced went, and why he ultimately ended up with so many.

Unfortunately, having had dealings with the man in question, he's such a lying cheating scumbag I wouldn't bet on the paternity of anything he's ever produced. Like you I just felt sorry for the horses.

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post #4 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 04:55 PM
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And this is of course, why we all try to DNA our horses to those we have been 'told'.

When my friend Esmeralda in the Netherlands, started with world wide Gypsy Horse DNA database, it did confirm a huge number of horses, linked to Mr. Price's animals. Our registries also require DNA and do compare to those horses, 'said' to be sires/dams. Some unfortunately, a few years ago, did not compare favourably. And interestingly enough, most of those who did not compare to what we had been told, did not come from Mr. Price. Serious breeders in the US, have taken to task, those who lied to us and have made it VERY public. One breeder, had been keeping several studs with his herds and just 'guessed' as to the paternity of the horses he sold here, years ago. There are in fact, a relatively few breeders in the UK, from whom we purchase, to come to the US. We know them all well and many of us have actually visited their farms, seen the horses and their sires and dams, before purchase.

Several years ago, I requested DNA on all the famous horses, still owned by breeders in the UK. Most, while not even understanding it at the time, were very willing to supply me with hair samples. Later, several others collected hair and we now have almost all the known lines, very well documented, via DNA. No guessing these days, unless someone buys from some unknown breeder in the UK, they find on the net.

The whole thing with Mr. Price, has been very disturbing to many of us. Many of my relatives and family friends, still live in Wales, so I and many others, were kept aware of what was going on. There is also one all-breed forum on the net, which has members who have been extremely outspoken and named names, for several years now. It was the longest message thread, I had ever seen on any forum on the net. I no longer am a member of that forum, and am not sure I even remember which one it is now, but it was certainly an eye-opener for many.

And lets not think that Mr. Price, was the only breeder of horses in the UK, who has not treated their horses and breeding, responsibly. There are many others and several who have been widely named and found guilty by authorities.

And of course, irresponsible breeding, goes on in every country.

Lizzie
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post #5 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 06:06 PM
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He's had another court appearance recently - he had a load of horses shut in a barn half starved or something
I can remember Tom from years back before gypsy cobs were anything more than cobs bred and sold by gypsies - if you get what I mean
He was never the sharpest pencil in the box but he did breed some really nice cobs - anything crap went to slaughter, I guess the introduction of passports and micro-chipping (cost of per horse) might have affected him with the meat trade
He's no different to a lot of dealers - and some of them are high end ones, any one that doesn't go in with a buyer beware attitude is stupid or naïve.
The whole US craze and some of them making him out to be some sort of a 'king of cobs' went to his head, he got greedy, the market crashed and he didn't have the sense to see it
Who knows
He should have been stopped before it got as bad as it did but they seem to be having as big a problem in Kent with gypsy horses so he's not an isolated case by any means
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post #6 of 12 Old 07-06-2013, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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Except most dealers don't use threats of violence and arson if you try to get their horses off your land.

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post #7 of 12 Old 07-06-2013, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by unclearthur View Post
Except most dealers don't use threats of violence and arson if you try to get their horses off your land.
We once received very similar threats from a gypsy we refused to sell two young horses too - they weren't even for sale, he just called in and asked to buy them for a pretty much giveaway price
We had to call the police but he was released without charge - although they were 'moved on'
The UK has long had a problem with gypsies moving onto private land and using threats when the owners tried to remove them and when they do go they leave so much rubbish and the contents of their toilets behind
I'm afraid that Tom Price is not at all unique in that behaviour
We lived by Cannock Chase for many years and the council (so local tax payers) had to pay the costs of barriers and earth banks to keep them off there.
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post #8 of 12 Old 07-06-2013, 01:17 PM
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post #9 of 12 Old 07-06-2013, 04:51 PM
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There was a time the Gypsys sold for $25K. That's when people thought they make a pile of money breeding them but it went bust because the market was flooded.
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post #10 of 12 Old 07-06-2013, 05:25 PM
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I think what most people in the US/Canada and other countries don't understand, is that Gypsy Horses have changed hands in the UK, between Gypsies and breeders there themselves, for HUGE money, for generations. By huge money, I mean more than most Americans would be willing to pay. And the top horses, still often do. These top priced horses, seldom find their way to the US, until they have produced a ton of foals in the UK.
There was a good reason, why "The Twenty Five Grand Horse" was so named, many years before he was sold to the US. That was in English pounds, so you can double that at the time, for American dollars. Don't think for a moment, that many of the UK Gypsy breeders, don't have incredible money at their disposal.

Certainly, Americans had to pay a lot for the horses we purchased. Not necessarily for the actual horse, but about ten or twelve thousand dollars, just to get it here.

Many, not in the breed in the US, love to parrot that which they have read on the net, that Gypsy Horses/Cobs in the Uk are 'two a penny'. Not true. Most of the 'true' Gypsies and with DNA'd and known backgrounds, are NOT 'two a penny'. And those are NOT what knowledgeable US buyers mostly buy. Those who have done their homework, know the bloodlines, know the breeders and buy from a very few UK breeders.

Black Forest Shires and Gypsy Horses, owned by Jeff and Christine Bartko, were able to import lots of GHs years ago, and offer to the public here, many superb horses at a reasonable cost. This, because they actually filled one plane, instead of bringing them in, individually. More than anyone else, they put Gypsy Horses on the map in the US.

Later, we came to know the few breeders we trusted in the UK and would often purchase from them directly. These days, we have in the US, all the known bloodlines. No reason except in a few cases maybe, to be importing. Certainly not in bulk, as a couple of breeders in the eastern US, still apparently do. And these breeders in the US, came upon the scene much later than many of us and (obviously) didn't do their homework. Sure, they have huge advertising budgets and again, appeal to those who also have not done their homework and are swayed by smart websites which make it appear that the seller, knows what he is doing.

As in any breed, it pays to do one's homework, before jumping in. Gypsy Horses in the US are no longer 'rare'. Prices have dropped considerably and are well compared to other breeds. Less expensive in fact, that many other breeds. Most of us in the early days, purchased Gypsies because we like them and never because we thought we'd make a pile of money, selling their offspring.

Lizzie
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Last edited by FeatheredFeet; 07-06-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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