My somewhat philosophical/angry rant on breed racism - Page 3
   

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My somewhat philosophical/angry rant on breed racism

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    10-17-2013, 09:32 AM
  #21
Trained
The biggest breed racism I see at shows is people hating on other peoples horses because they are nice or well bred.

In general, I've noticed that when people breed bash its because they are jealous. Either jealous that you are beating them on your mutt or that you are beating them on your well bred horse.
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    10-17-2013, 09:36 AM
  #22
Trained
I have found lots of different breeds have lots of talents and can do well at many things. I do think that some horses have been bred to naturally do higher levels of different sports and if you are competing at those high levels, then you probably need one of them. For MOST of us though, who are not Olympic calibre riders, then a good horse of any breed can probably do just fine for us.

I've also found that Arabians tend to "rub off" on other horses. I have some Arabs who are just comedians and they encourage the QHs to do it too. The other day, one of my Arabs wanted to sneak out and play "pasture tag" and was giving me fits at the gate. The look of absolute delight on his face when he "suckered" me and I dodged left when he went right and got out into the big pasture was a sheer joy to behold. So, immediately, the QH stallion had to test me and see if HE could get me laughing. I LOVE it when they outsmart in silly stuff like this.

As long as WE enjoy OUR horses, who cares what anyone else thinks? They aren't paying my bills.
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    10-17-2013, 09:37 AM
  #23
Showing
All horses are purpose bred, as the domestic horses of today in no way, shape or form resemble their wild ancestors.

Whether or not you put a fugly, conformational trainwreck of a mare to a stallion who should long ago have been a gelding, or are breeding top flight animals to each other, every horse is purpose bred regardless of whether they can actually do anything other than stand around, eat and poop.

When I hear how prejudiced others supposedly are against someone's unknown lineage, hammer headed, pig eyed, grade horse and how their horse is SO much better than a purebred, to me that's just as snobby as someone else with breed/bloodline prejudice.

Chances are if you take your ungifted animal in a class with horses who were purpose bred for that particular sport you're going to lose, and that's NOT because everybody hated your horse/was jealous/somebody paid off the judge.

Grade horses with unknown lineage can be fine animals, but you can't tell me overall that they're just as talented as horses who are purpose bred for a particular discipline.
     
    10-17-2013, 10:59 AM
  #24
Started
Quote:
I'm more so speaking about the "judgments" that people place upon horses because of their breed.
this part I agree with, for the most part. Every horse should be evaluated as an individual. Many horses, if given the chance, would excel in a disapline for which they were not bred. Think snow man. Or the many other exceptions to the rule.

That said, it makes no sense to go looking for say, a cutting or cow horse prospect, and instead of looking for a stock horse with those bloodlines, you go waste a bunch of your own and the sellers time, looking at thoroughbreds, Arabians, shorter warmbloods and some draft crosses. Might one of those work for you? Sure. If you find one with the right temperament, build and inclination, then invest a few thousand into training it. The fact is, you are going to invest thousands into the training regardless, and the odds of success are astronomically higher if you buy a prospect that is from proven stock. If you have the time, desire and funds to give another, potentially ill suited horse a chance, great. But for the most part, you do what you can to increase your odds of success. I am not going to invest months of conditioning in a freisian, with the hope that it might make an endurance horse. No, I'm going to go buy an arab, or other proven breed, ideally out of successful parents. If I had a freisian I might try it for fun, but I certainly would not go buy a carriage horse for long distance riding, or a dressage horse for cattle work, or a 14hh cutting horse as my next show jumper.

People holding onto silly, unproven prejudices about a breed(or for that matter a gender, height, color) is unfortunate. Hating something is never good, and criticizing others for liking something different is not good either. No one should be bullied or put down for choosing to ride a horse of a different breed, height, color, bloodline or gender.

I have opinions, and I think everyone is entitled to their own. I don't like most quarter horses. Either I find them boring, or they are trying to kill me. I know I have only been around a tiny fraction of the qh's out there, so my opinion is likely unfairly biased. But I still would not choose to go out and buy one. I love thoroughbreds, but I think most of them are suicidal, so I would not own one. Personal preference is one thing. Looking down on people who don't agree is another entirely.
     
    10-17-2013, 12:03 PM
  #25
Green Broke
I dunno what to tell 'ya, OP. Those prejudices will always be there. And for good reason.

If I decide that I want to become a successful barrel racer, I'm not going to go out and purchase a WB in hopes that he will "have the heart" for it. No, I'm going to go purchase a proven Quarter Horse or Paint, and then take lessons so we can improve together. If I want to try my hand at Jumpers, I'm not going to purchase a Gypsy Vanner and hope that he "has the heart for it". No, I'm going to purchase a WB or a Thoroughbred, then take lessons so we can improve together.

Likewise, I'm not going to try something that my horse just isn't bred for. I own a Hunt-Type Paint. He has the big, long gaits, low headset... Everything he needs to be successful in the Hunter and Equitation rings. Plus, he's a little on the older side. Am I going to try barrel racing with him? Heck no. It's not something he's meant to do.

As far as what other people think... Who cares? If your horse is good enough, they will prove it.
     
    10-17-2013, 01:01 PM
  #26
Yearling
Exclamation Warning. Stereotype AND Generalization About to Begin

In reading the OP's comments (without taking any other factors into account - just based on the comments)

I walk away with the perception that the OP has never SERIOUSLY competed in either the horse world or the dog world.

Now, don't take that personal. By competing, I mean pour your heart and soul, finances, spare and not-spare time, everything you have, to the point you are almost considered a professional competitor.

Based purely on the original post, I could walk away saying that the OP may be in training or may be entering the horse show world, but that the OP is not currently engaged in a horse show lifestyle.


In my dog training past, I have had lots of obedience students with family pets decide to enter into the performance ring. Obedience or Agility, doesn't matter.

A dog owner with a family pet discovers agilty. The owner gets the "competition bug." The owner enjoys the activity and gets ribbon / trophy envy. He or She wants to walk out with the big rosette at the end of the day.

He or she owns (let's say) a basset hound and trains the basset every day. Read every book. Practice practice practice. Build their own jumps and obstacles. The basset loves the work.

But, that basset WILL NEVER score higher than the border collie. In the agility ring, it is the border collie and sheltie that dominates the scoring. Sure, the basset can complete the course. The dog may even love going under the tarps and over the A-frame (sorry, giggled at that thought).

But it won't win. And eventually, the owner has to accept that he or she is never going to get a rosette.

You know what happens next?

The owner buys a border collie. And not just ANY border collie. One that comes from agility proven breeding. Because this next dog is not so much a family pet; it is an investment in ribbons.

I have a cow-bred quarter. Because of saddle issues, I moved from western hacking to an English saddle where I will hack. I happen to board my horse with a respected dressage instructor. So, I am taking English lessons now. Will I one day sign up for a local show at the barn and have a good time. Yes. Can my cow-bred horse do this. Yes.

But, if I ever get good enough at dressage riding that I want a ribbon....

The cow-horse and I will have a conversation. Because eventually, my ego (how about need to achieve) will outgrow not his enthusiasm, but his conformation.

That's why people choose one breed over another. You can smack your head against the wall until the wall shatters, but you will never turn a basset hound into a border collie.
     
    10-17-2013, 01:11 PM
  #27
Weanling
Boy, oh boy...... horses, dogs, whatever you play with, their will always be "breed racism" part of it is the competitive nature of folks, part of it is tradition, and part of it is that bottom line, your breed x horse might be the best off breed barrel horse in the world but, its babies likely wont be. While there certainly will always be the odd ball grade horse that does well at something every sport has its specialist.

As far as price reflecting worth..... I would say that when you get into the upper realm of any discipline, or at least get to the point of being competitive pay to play is more than just a saying, it is fact. And, while pedigree is only worth the paper it is printed on, I will pay for consistent results, based on someone elses hard work, any day of the week.

AQHSam, I agree whole hartedly with your post. I see exactly what you are talking about every weekend, when someone, who shows up with their newspaper pointer realizes they can't compete much past juvenile stakes with the purpose bred FT dogs.

Jim
     
    10-17-2013, 01:34 PM
  #28
Yearling
Jimmyp: I "acquired" several of my dogs this way.

I adopted this cute little (turned out HUGE) lab/wolfhound mix. Showed her in UKC obedience into the utility ring and did well, but that wasn't good enough. I wanted AKC.

So I then a well bred (but England field bred) English Springer spaniel. Bombed in obedience. Couldn't keep her bloody nose off the ground. She did very well in Agility.

But, then I wanted to do the breed ring, and her fieldy looks from across the sea wasn't getting me anywhere, so I sucked up to a bench breeder and now had a show-bred who couldn't do the agility course but was decent in the breed and obedience ring.

I had to retire at that point. I ran out of dog kennels.
     
    10-17-2013, 02:16 PM
  #29
Showing
I want to get my Scotch Collie into Agility. I think he'd be good at it, but I have no desire to ribbon chase. As long as he's enjoying himself, that's all that matters.

He's from herding dog lines, but doesn't have the desire to herd.
     
    10-17-2013, 02:35 PM
  #30
Weanling
Honestly, breed prejudices exist for a reason. I love a good cutting bred QH because I used to live on a working ranch, and they were super easy to train to do the work I needed. I also like the temperament that QH's tend to have. Those same horses I love are terrible at my new sport. My poor QH struggles with basic dressage. I would love to have the time and money for a warmblood, and once arthritis gets the better of her, and I have a real job instead of a graduate stipend, I will get one. It is simply not fair to ask my poor girl to keep moving up the levels when collection is physically difficult for her. There's just no way we'd ever score well. She's not physically capable of executing the movements with any quality.

Of course, some amount of breed snobbiness is about money. I can't afford $10k+ for a horse right now, nor can I afford to have some one exercise/train a more difficult horse while I don't have the time. And some people in the show world CAN. Some of them are the kind of people that try to make you feel bad for not having the nicest car or the most expensive saddle. Those people suck, but they show up everywhere. Nothing wrong with doing casual/low level stuff with whatever horse you can afford as long as you're both happy.
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