OPENING UP A CAN OF WORMS (halter horses) - Page 14
   

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OPENING UP A CAN OF WORMS (halter horses)

This is a discussion on OPENING UP A CAN OF WORMS (halter horses) within the Horse Breeds forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
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    08-02-2011, 09:25 PM
  #131
Green Broke
Oops. Sorry. I'd take it off, but there is no edit button.
     
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    08-02-2011, 09:48 PM
  #132
Yearling
I have no experience on showing horses so I can't speak about what happens at them. The thing that actually sticks in my craw happens on this very forum. You go to the breeding section and suggest that you want to breed your unregistered, no name horse and then sit back and watch the ugliness descend.

People get stuck in bashing "backyard breeders". Pontificating on how back yard breeders destroy the integrity of breeds. Ranting on and on about how only responsible breeders with registered horses should be allowed to breed horses because they are the only ones who really have the breeds best interest at heart. What a load of crap.

If the people breeding these halter horses are an example of "responsible" breeders then I will take my chances with a back yard breeder. I bet the horses shown on this thread come from "great bloodlines", and yet the result from those bloodlines, manipulated by the "responsible" breeder is absolutely appalling.
     
    08-02-2011, 10:07 PM
  #133
Trained
Again it is a viscous circle. People breed what people buy people buy what wins judges pin what is in front of them. Plane and simple. If given a different choice and it wins then breeders would breed that as that is what people will want b/c it is what wins. With Halter horses it is easy to go to an extreme that you do not see in other disciplines. There is a reason why they are called lead and feed horses. This is why they end up like this.

Again it is easy to sit behind a computer screen and say you do not like something it is something different to go out and do something about it.
     
    08-02-2011, 10:19 PM
  #134
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
Again you may not like it but until you are willing to put your money out there and show a horse who is different then stop talking.
And what right do you have to tell people what they can and can't talk about? I will continue talking until my dying day, about this subject and about many others. Try and stop me. Go ahead!

And yes, I HAVE entered horses in classes. I've paid that money. I've been there and done that and I STILL think that if there are no horses worthy of the ribbons, that none should earn the ribbons, especially if it means that bad breeders will be discouraged.

Heck, even if I had no show experience, the stinkin' show doesn't matter. It's just a stupid show. The quality of life for these horses ALWAYS comes first.

I don't give a rat's patootie how the shows are structured, how points are given out, what kind of money it costs to enter shows, or how much money is earned from shows. I'll keep saying it as many times as I have to, long after people are sick of hearing me say it, THE HORSES COME FIRST. Even if it means that shows are disbanded for good, THE HORSES COME FIRST. ALWAYS. PERIOD.

It doesn't matter how well these horses are taken care of. The more poorly bred horses that are created, the more unwanted horses there will be to get abused, neglected, and sent off to slaughter. A poorly built horse who can't even support its own weight to stay sound for life can be living a life of luxury, but he will still be in pain. And there's no one to blame but the greedy, selfish breeders. So long as the judges keep rewarding these horses, the breeders will continue to breed them.

And why should I have to enter my own horses in these classes in order to change things? First of all, I have no interest in showing halter. Second of all, I don't have the time, money, and resources to show in the way that would be required to make any sort of difference. Third of all, I highly doubt one person would be able to change the way things are done at all unless they managed to start placing on a national level. Even then it's doubtful. Heck, even an online petition would have more influence.

Besides, why aren't you fighting for the horses? Are you really saying that the money and points that come out of showing are more important than the lives of these horses? You sound like someone who shows. Why don't YOU enter some shows and change things? Practice what you preach! Come on.
     
    08-02-2011, 10:20 PM
  #135
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwigirl    
If the people breeding these halter horses are an example of "responsible" breeders then I will take my chances with a back yard breeder.
And kiwigirl, I think people here are actually saying that most halter horse breeders are NOT responsible breeders. Both they and backyard breeders need to get another hobby.
     
    08-02-2011, 10:53 PM
  #136
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by bagof4grapes    
And what right do you have to tell people what they can and can't talk about? I will continue talking until my dying day, about this subject and about many others. Try and stop me. Go ahead!

And yes, I HAVE entered horses in classes. I've paid that money. I've been there and done that and I STILL think that if there are no horses worthy of the ribbons, that none should earn the ribbons, especially if it means that bad breeders will be discouraged.

Heck, even if I had no show experience, the stinkin' show doesn't matter. It's just a stupid show. The quality of life for these horses ALWAYS comes first.

I don't give a rat's patootie how the shows are structured, how points are given out, what kind of money it costs to enter shows, or how much money is earned from shows. I'll keep saying it as many times as I have to, long after people are sick of hearing me say it, THE HORSES COME FIRST. Even if it means that shows are disbanded for good, THE HORSES COME FIRST. ALWAYS. PERIOD.

It doesn't matter how well these horses are taken care of. The more poorly bred horses that are created, the more unwanted horses there will be to get abused, neglected, and sent off to slaughter. A poorly built horse who can't even support its own weight to stay sound for life can be living a life of luxury, but he will still be in pain. And there's no one to blame but the greedy, selfish breeders. So long as the judges keep rewarding these horses, the breeders will continue to breed them.

And why should I have to enter my own horses in these classes in order to change things? First of all, I have no interest in showing halter. Second of all, I don't have the time, money, and resources to show in the way that would be required to make any sort of difference. Third of all, I highly doubt one person would be able to change the way things are done at all unless they managed to start placing on a national level. Even then it's doubtful. Heck, even an online petition would have more influence.

Besides, why aren't you fighting for the horses? Are you really saying that the money and points that come out of showing are more important than the lives of these horses? You sound like someone who shows. Why don't YOU enter some shows and change things? Practice what you preach! Come on.

I do show and I do breed. I enter the classes with horses how are not halter bred and I do well with my young horses when I show in halter at AQHA shows. Which is not as much as I use to. Why? B/C showing AQHA proves nothing for what I breed for.

So yes I do practice what I preach. I am out there breeding good sound well proven horses. I do put my horses first. I use trainers who do things the way I want and in return I put good horses under them and they win.

You say one person can not make a difference. I say it starts with one person.
     
    08-02-2011, 11:57 PM
  #137
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrhareiner    
I do show and I do breed. I enter the classes with horses how are not halter bred and I do well with my young horses when I show in halter at AQHA shows. Which is not as much as I use to. Why? B/C showing AQHA proves nothing for what I breed for.

So yes I do practice what I preach. I am out there breeding good sound well proven horses. I do put my horses first. I use trainers who do things the way I want and in return I put good horses under them and they win.

You say one person can not make a difference. I say it starts with one person.
That's fantastic. You're capable of doing that. So keep doing it and fight the good fight. But don't tell others they can't talk if they can't help. I'm doing what I can with my limited means which for now mostly involves getting the word out there.

But I stand by what I said. If the horses are suffering then something's gotta change, no matter how much money is involved. And the horses ARE suffering.
     
    08-03-2011, 12:14 AM
  #138
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwigirl    
I have no experience on showing horses so I can't speak about what happens at them. The thing that actually sticks in my craw happens on this very forum. You go to the breeding section and suggest that you want to breed your unregistered, no name horse and then sit back and watch the ugliness descend.

People get stuck in bashing "backyard breeders". Pontificating on how back yard breeders destroy the integrity of breeds. Ranting on and on about how only responsible breeders with registered horses should be allowed to breed horses because they are the only ones who really have the breeds best interest at heart. What a load of crap.

If the people breeding these halter horses are an example of "responsible" breeders then I will take my chances with a back yard breeder. I bet the horses shown on this thread come from "great bloodlines", and yet the result from those bloodlines, manipulated by the "responsible" breeder is absolutely appalling.
I agree! Until the breeders of purebreds can prove they have the horse's soundness and health in their best interest, I will continue to happily buy grade horses. And purebreds if they are the right fit. (Actually, I've probably owned more papered horses than not, but papers were never a consideration in the purchase).

So until the AQHA starts producing more horses with sound legs and feet, I am in no hurry to rush out and buy one for top dollar when I can get a well trained grade horse for much less. Quarter Horses have nothing on my Mustang. He has all the muscle AND he has good bone and feet. And the most willing disposition. Even my friend with Quarter Horses that are so nice I could never afford them will borrow my Mustang when she needs an extra horse for a beginner to ride.

So yeah, purebreds are great, but I really don't think grades should be bashed when there are as many poorly bred purebreds out there as there are.
     
    08-03-2011, 12:24 AM
  #139
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailhorserider    
I agree! Until the breeders of purebreds can prove they have the horse's soundness and health in their best interest, I will continue to happily buy grade horses. And purebreds if they are the right fit. (Actually, I've probably owned more papered horses than not, but papers were never a consideration in the purchase).

So until the AQHA starts producing more horses with sound legs and feet, I am in no hurry to rush out and buy one for top dollar when I can get a well trained grade horse for much less. Quarter Horses have nothing on my Mustang. He has all the muscle AND he has good bone and feet. And the most willing disposition. Even my friend with Quarter Horses that are so nice I could never afford them will borrow my Mustang when she needs an extra horse for a beginner to ride.

So yeah, purebreds are great, but I really don't think grades should be bashed when there are as many poorly bred purebreds out there as there are.
It's not the grade horses being bashed, it's their breeders. True, grade horses make fantastic pleasure and trail horses because of their tendency to be level-headed, and some perform fantastically in the show ring. Heck, I have my own BLM Mustang and and I rave about him! But the fact stands that a majority of horses in meat buyer auctions and slaughter houses are grade horses.

It's great when a grade horse can find a forever home with a loving human but that's a rare occurrence. There just isn't enough demand for the grade horse and backyard breeders are creating them faster than they can find good homes.

Breeders who breed for what's winning instead of what's best for the horse are bad, but so are backyard breeders. Most people would also gladly take a grade horse over an Arnold Schwartzapony but the problem is that those people have other options and are usually looking for something else.
     
    08-03-2011, 12:44 AM
  #140
Banned
It's poor quality that gets me. And indiscriminate breeding of any sort. Ideally, only excellent quality registered stock should be bred, with the rare phenomenal grade exception (I'm very much oversimplifying the complex issues here). In the end, just because I'd rather see good quality grades bred over poor quality registered stock....that doesn't mean I exactly condone the breeding of grades, 99% of the time....and I've owns some excellent grade horses.
     

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