Paints vs. Pintos... - Page 10
 
 

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Paints vs. Pintos...

This is a discussion on Paints vs. Pintos... within the Horse Breeds forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • What is the diffrence between a paint horse and an apaloosa

 
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    03-11-2010, 12:01 AM
  #91
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaintHorseMares    
The APHA rules were changed in 2005 to require that at least one parent be a Paint, so the QHxQH, etc combinations are no longer allowed.
because it (the APHA) has come far enough to where there is paint bloodlines for the Paint horse, not just pintos of different breeds. That's wha the Pinto registry is for. :)
     
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    03-11-2010, 09:58 AM
  #92
Weanling
>>>> I never said I did research. In fact, I said twice that I haven't done any and virtually know nothing, I'm just using logic. So thanks for clearing that up for me. So I'll change my statement. Any horse can pass on any color in its lineage except cremello. Yes?

No.

Just because a horse has a color in its lineage does NOT mean it can pass on that color. Having a certain colored ancestor does not mean that the horse in front of you inherited the gene to make that color in its offspring.

For example, you were talking about the cream gene. Palominos have one creme gene and one non-cream gene, cremellos have 2 cream genes and no non-cream gene. A cremello might have 2 chestnut grandparents and several chestnut great-grandparents, but a cremello can never produce a chestnut because it does not have that non-cream gene itself to pass on to offspring.

On the flip side, a palomino has one of each gene (cream and non cream), and so bred to a chestnut, a palomino can produce a chestnut foal. That chestnut foal cannot ever produce palomino unless bred to another horse that provides the cream gene, because that chestnut horse does not itself have a cream gene-- doesn't matter that its parent did, the chestnut horse didn't inherit it.

Same with several other colors and patterns-- tobiano, appaloosa, silver, grey, dun, and etc-- a bay horse could have a pedigree loaded with dun ancestry, but that bay horse itself doesn't have the dun gene, so it won't make a dun foal, ever, when bred to a non-dun mate.
     
    03-11-2010, 10:08 AM
  #93
Weanling
Originally Posted by PaintHorseMares
The APHA rules were changed in 2005 to require that at least one parent be a Paint, so the QHxQH, etc combinations are no longer allowed.

>>>> The APHA rules were changed in 2005 to require that at least one parent be a Paint, so the QHxQH, etc combinations are no longer allowed.

>>>> because it (the APHA) has come far enough to where there is paint bloodlines for the Paint horse, not just pintos of different breeds. That's wha the Pinto registry is for. :)

Its been MANY years since APHA allowed any other blood besides QH and TB-- and they still do allow QH and TB-- They didn't close their books to crossing, just started to require that one parent has to be APHA registered.

There are definitely Paint people who disagree with the rule change, and feel that APHA's rule change was less about the breed, and more about political maneuvering, because it appears that APHA made the change "in retaliation" to AQHA's allowance of paint-colored horses-- horses that formerly could only be registered APHA....

Besides, it is definitely still possible for AQHA x AQHA horses to get registered with APHA--because in some circumstances that 'one paint parent' has both AQHA and APHA papers.
     
    03-11-2010, 10:18 AM
  #94
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastowest    
There are definitely Paint people who disagree with the rule change, and feel that APHA's rule change was less about the breed, and more about political maneuvering, because it appears that APHA made the change "in retaliation" to AQHA's allowance of paint-colored horses-- horses that formerly could only be registered APHA....
Agree 100%

Quote:
Besides, it is definitely still possible for AQHA x AQHA horses to get registered with APHA--because in some circumstances that 'one paint parent' has both AQHA and APHA papers.
Indeed. I find the whole dual registered situation amusing, especially in light of this thread...is it a Paint? Or a QH? ...wait... it's BOTH! and therefore you can (in the current rules) perpetuate this duality to the offspring.
     
    03-11-2010, 05:08 PM
  #95
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
You must be using photoshop!! No way can that be a real paint. Why it looks just like the other horse.
I got into this late, but this totally truly made me laugh out loud.
     
    03-11-2010, 06:39 PM
  #96
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastowest    
>>>> I never said I did research. In fact, I said twice that I haven't done any and virtually know nothing, I'm just using logic. So thanks for clearing that up for me. So I'll change my statement. Any horse can pass on any color in its lineage except cremello. Yes?

No.

Just because a horse has a color in its lineage does NOT mean it can pass on that color. Having a certain colored ancestor does not mean that the horse in front of you inherited the gene to make that color in its offspring.

For example, you were talking about the cream gene. Palominos have one creme gene and one non-cream gene, cremellos have 2 cream genes and no non-cream gene. A cremello might have 2 chestnut grandparents and several chestnut great-grandparents, but a cremello can never produce a chestnut because it does not have that non-cream gene itself to pass on to offspring.

On the flip side, a palomino has one of each gene (cream and non cream), and so bred to a chestnut, a palomino can produce a chestnut foal. That chestnut foal cannot ever produce palomino unless bred to another horse that provides the cream gene, because that chestnut horse does not itself have a cream gene-- doesn't matter that its parent did, the chestnut horse didn't inherit it.

Same with several other colors and patterns-- tobiano, appaloosa, silver, grey, dun, and etc-- a bay horse could have a pedigree loaded with dun ancestry, but that bay horse itself doesn't have the dun gene, so it won't make a dun foal, ever, when bred to a non-dun mate.

Oh, I see, I see. So how is it possible for two solids to throw a pinto? Isn't that the situation with the OP and her horse?
     
    03-11-2010, 08:22 PM
  #97
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by riccil0ve    
Oh, I see, I see. So how is it possible for two solids to throw a pinto? Isn't that the situation with the OP and her horse?
No, her mother is a bay. Her mother's sire was Black, her's mother's dam was a chestnut. Both my horse's mother's parents were born out of Bay sire's and dam's. My horse's father is a pinto, but he is not a homozygous pinto. I was just talking about that to my horse's mother's owner. She thought it was odd that my horse's mother threw pinto 2 out of 2 times.
     
    03-11-2010, 11:36 PM
  #98
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
The point of this whole thread ( if there is one ) is that Paints and QHs compete in a variety of events and have several different types of conformation to do those events. A horse bred for Hunter Jumper is going to look much different than a horse that is bred for cutting regardless of spots or not.
The point of the thread was to help someone figure out their horses linage. And to differinciate (sp?) the diffrence between a paint and a pinto. Not whether or not Paints and QH's are the same breed or not. Just sayin.
     
    03-12-2010, 08:06 AM
  #99
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar22    
The point of the thread was to help someone figure out their horses linage. And to differinciate (sp?) the diffrence between a paint and a pinto. Not whether or not Paints and QH's are the same breed or not. Just sayin.
Good point. Perhaps I should have said "the point of this thread drift" instead.
     
    03-12-2010, 05:38 PM
  #100
Weanling
>>>> The point of the thread was to help someone figure out their horses linage. And to differinciate (sp?) the diffrence between a paint and a pinto. Not whether or not Paints and QH's are the same breed or not. Just sayin.

Actually... below is a direct quote friom the OP in the very first post of this thread--

""Also, I've heard some say there are no American Indian Paint Horses, that most of the time that means they are basically QH's, so some people even call my horse a Half Arab/Half QH. What's your take? Does she even look like a QH? Do Paints look like QH's?""

So, the Paint/QH question was indeed asked by the OP.
Just sayin'.
     

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