Saddleseat- How has this not been outlawed? - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
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post #31 of 164 Old 04-24-2008, 11:17 PM
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LadyDreamer do you think its worth it to explain our logic?
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post #32 of 164 Old 04-25-2008, 12:06 AM
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It is ALWAYS worth trying to explain things. Even if the OP doesn't change her thinking(not trying to force our opinions on you OP. you have valid concerns and all) there may be someone reading who could go either way. If we "back out" we may be perceived as having something to hide. And you never know who will be reading this thing.

Since this is not a private conversation, and open for all eyes to see, then yes, I think it would be beneficial(I hope anyway. These things can go both ways) to explain our methods. WE have to keep an open mind about these things. Besides, this seems like a more accepting group than many that I have tried to deal with before.

Let me scan the posts since my last and I'll work something out.
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post #33 of 164 Old 04-25-2008, 01:24 AM
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im going to chime in even though i said to myself i wouldnt because i know very little about the actual subject but then i realised this is a subject that can be commented on even if you dont know much about the actual subject.

the methods that have been mentioned are IMO things that need to be addressed. so everyone doesnt do it. who cares??? a number of people do do it and it doesnt matter whether 1 or 1000000 horses are put through anything so uncomfortable isnt the issue. the issue is that it happens to start with. do child services say 'no, that man can beat his child up because not everyone does it so you cant judge everyone based on him?' of course not. each case is treated for the case it is and punishment etc is designed to suit the wrongs.

tim - maybe she wont achieve anything but as someone told me recently, you may hit brick wall after brick wall but if you really want to make a difference you try anything and everything you can. props to the people who see injustice and decide to try and help. if everyone was discouraged by having people say 'what can you do about it anyway' then no injustice would ever be righted. and while this goes for any discipline that has issues, obviously the OP is only going to comment and what he/she has seen.

i do understand the need to advocate that these issues are not things that are 'the norm' however all we can do is offer our say and not go out of our way to CHANGE how that person feels. passion is what makes miracles and if someone has the passion to take something on board then good on 'em

once again, as vida mentioned, please remember our conscientious etiquette policy when responding to people and respect everyones right to feel a certain way about a subject
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post #34 of 164 Old 04-25-2008, 01:49 AM
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Before the trotting saddleseat methods are explained please realize that most of the abuse sadly comes from the gaited breeds mainly Tennessee Walking Horses. They are the ones who are sored, have their feet cut as short as possible then have 6 inches of pad up front, and are treated just as rough.
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post #35 of 164 Old 04-25-2008, 01:57 AM
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We're kinda running off-topic but yeah, each riding discipline is not perfect. ;) They all have some flaws of SOME sort...or something someone's going to disagree with.

For example, this girl I used to know @ my barn HATES people who do jumping. She says it's cruel & the horse can easily get injured. That didn't change how I ride...I still jump lol. Riding PERIOD can be dangerous itself! The horse/&/or rider can get injured whenever!
But anyway, just because some saddleseat riders treat their horses like that, doesn't mean all of them do. Just like with horse owners...some abuse their horses, some don't. It's kinda like a stereotype. Same with the Tennesee Walking Horses...not ALL people who ride them/have them treat 'em like that. ;) 'Ya see what I'm saying?

Anyway I'm off to bed lol ahhh addicted to this forum!

Ride more, worry less.
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post #36 of 164 Old 04-25-2008, 03:05 AM
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As a breed, we really need a new book on the Modern aspect of the breed.

I am going to post again on the tail cutting issue, and I really want to get into some of the other issues, like shoes and so on... One topic at a time though. Don't want to muddy things up.

Tail Sets

Kyani is very right. This is a VERY blurry issue even for "us". Very blurry.

When the tail is cut it is not the nerve, but the tendon that allows the horse to clamp his tail down with much force that is cut.

This all started for practical reasons, just like the docking of tails of working drafts was practical to keep the tail clear of the machinery. Part of what Saddlebreds were used for back in the day were for fancy carriage horses.

The tail cutting came about because of thier carriage background. If the driving lines were to get caught under the horse's tail, and he were to clamp his tail then the result could be absolutely disastrous.

It is one thing riding a horse and having it freak out and throw you. It is quite another ordeal indeed when you are in a cart and your horse freaks out(which can happen if a horse clamps his tail on the lines). I've seen so many more horrible driving accidents than riding accidents. Really, I couldn't care less if a rider falls off. So what. Go catch the horse and make sure the rider is okay. If a driver gets tossed out of a cart, that horse is running blinded from what is behind him, being chased by a big rattly thing that has a possibility of hitting him behind and is closed in on both sides of him, and he has NO contact with his driver, which leaves him confused and scared.

It started with a practical use, and is now merely a cosmetic procedure.

The people in favor of set tails believe that it completes the look. That it balances out the overall appearance of the horse.

Here is how we get our horses ready to have thier tails cut. First we fit a Tail Set to them. It is very loose, and care is taken so that it is fit to each individual perfectly. If a part of it rubs, then that part is either covered in fleece like a shipping halter type, or simply the part is removed or adjusted.

To help ready the tail, we put what is called a bustle on them, which is just a really thick crupper. ( ) This, in the process of getting the horse used to wearing the set, helps stretch the tail so that the procedure and healing time is better for them.

After they are fitted and comfortable with thier tail set, then they are ready to have thier tails cut. We personally use our vet, because he is very experienced, well reccommended and has done an exceptional job on ours. The horse is sedated, and the area anesthetized. The vet has the tail held upright and straight as he performs the slight nick to the two tendons that allow a horse to clamp his tail tightly to his rump. After the cut the tail is bandaged and put in the tailset, thistime with a higher set crupper. During the healing period, the tail MUST MUST MUST be cared for dilligently. The horse should be checked throughout the day for the entire healing process to make sure the set hasn't slipped, and the tailset needs to be changed every day. As the tail heals, the tendons heal in a more stretched out version of what they were before and they lose the ability to clamp thier tail. They still have full movement of the tail, though yes it is limited in the set. (I've been whacked in the face to often by my old gelding to know that one! Hah!). Actually, during this healing time, ours are usually well padded with cotton to make them more comfortable.

Since we often do not have an entire barn full of horses in sets, usually, after we are confident that the tail is completely healed and the horse is doing well with it, the set comes off in the morning before breakfast, and put on in the evening before dinner.

The aftercare is SO important to the outcome. The tails are part of the overall picture, and if you don't care for it as you should, you have wasted all your time and money. I will try to come up with an average price what the end cost usually is on having one horse's tail done.

I'll use the analogy that I used in the other thread. If you are going to get braces on your teeth(had them for six years), you had BEST wear your retainer when you get them off. You may not wear them all the time, but thier importance is paramount to the appearance and outcome of your teeth.

Next up, I hope, will be the Shoes.
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post #37 of 164 Old 04-25-2008, 06:03 AM
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Thanks for that LadyDreamer, very informative. I knew nothing about it before. I don't see it as abusive at all. They can still use the tail to swish flys and slap us in the face so whats the problem? No different then some of the cosmetic things we do to ourselves as humans. You could say, well the horse can't complain. If thats the case then every mother who takes her infant in to get the ears pierced should be arrested for abuse. Same logic as far as I can see. I'm sure most stallions would prefer not to be gelded. You could cry abuse on that one too. I realize everyone has their own soapbox. I just think there are other, more important issues to "preach" about.

Hasn't soring of the hoof been made illegal by most of the associations that used to do it?
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post #38 of 164 Old 04-25-2008, 09:40 AM
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saddleseat issues

Hello again If a person stops and looks at all breeds and riders or owners they can find things wrong with how and why any training means is cruel to a horse the completely happy horse is one that is wild not saddled in any way. If i want my mustangs to be truely happy with my rideing them ,and they do show me the difference when i go barback with just an indian bitless on them . I dont want to see any horse trained for show or any disapline with pain . But in our world it happens in all breeds in some way or another . The walking horse breed is in the spot light very heavely at this time do to the soreing and heavey front shoes , if you look in to it they all do something bad to horses in some way . for the show ring the jumping ring reining cutting western pleasure ect just some breeds are more in the light at this time with show season in full swing
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post #39 of 164 Old 04-25-2008, 10:24 AM
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I think it's more the methods they use than saddleseat itself.
I do not agree with the tailsets and chains at all, though.
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post #40 of 164 Old 04-25-2008, 11:15 AM
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I can feel myself getting smarter!!!!!!! On to the shoes... I want to learn more!!!!!

Be strong and courageous, and do the work. Don't be afraid or discouraged by the size of the task, for the Lord God, my God, is with you. He will not fail you or forsake you.

1 Chronicles 28:20

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