Splash? Frame? - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 04-27-2010, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
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Question Splash? Frame?

I would love to figure this out once and for all.

My mare is solid black with two blue eyes, a large and bottom-heavy facial marking, and one small and pointy/jagged leg marking. She has no white anywhere else (except a tiny piece of one hoof).


Right side

Left side

Front

Leg marking

Leg marking





This is her dam: LTO Bodealia, foxtrotter for sale in Florida

Bottom-heavy jagged stripe, lip white, no leg markings.



This is her sire: http://www.missourifoxtrottersatoz.c...0CLOUD%20C.jpg

Solid black. No white.







Here's her pedigree: Clouds Mystique W Missouri Fox Trotter

Not a pinto in sight, although there are a few sabino-looking horses registered as either roan or solid. If you look through the photos, ignore Croupier all the way through Hoogheid. Somebody screwed up.


Anyway, I had her tested for SB1 and it came back negative. Do any of the horses in her pedigree look like they could be splash or frame? How minimally can they be expressed? How many generations can they stay so minimally expressed?



I really don't know what to think. I've seen pictures of both splash and frame horses that look just like her.


Splash:
http://www.morgancolors.com/faircrestdarkknight.jpg
http://www.morgancolors.com/journeysdoubletake.jpg
http://www.rainbowmorganhorseassoc.c.../amateur25.jpg



Frame:
http://www.streborminis.com/files/Nito_2.jpg
http://www.sunrae.com/redrockminiatu...ightImage2.jpg (he has a partial blue eye)

These horses are all related to the previous horse:
http://pacificpintos.com/mares/images/bonnie3.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...357_00_029.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...385_00_017.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../foxy8_07h.jpg



She has a full brother who has the exact same markings she does, so there has to be a reason for it.

Any ideas?
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post #2 of 26 Old 04-27-2010, 10:01 PM
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My gut tells me splash, I'm not sure why. But that's not based on any great knowledge though, so other people will have stronger opinions :]

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post #3 of 26 Old 04-27-2010, 10:34 PM
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I would say almost definitely splash because it seems to be the obvious pattern further back in her pedigree. Giles Hot Teddy displays the classic front jag hind leg markings found in either sabino or splash - and seeing as she's tested negative for sabino, I'd assume those are splash genes lurking behind. Sir Maugrey way back on her dam's side has that big crisp white face which screams splash to me, not frame.

I do believe splash also has a FAR bigger tendency to display itself very minimally, much like sabino, as opposed to frame. Although you did happen to find photos of frames that look like her, a search shows they're very hard to find - you'll almost always find a splotch of body white.

You also have to consider breed - splash and sabino are those consistant colors that keep popping up when nobody thought a breed could have them. Splash seems much more likely in her then frame, as they're not a typically pinto breed.

In the end, you probably won't find a definitive answer, but based on the few pics I can find on her ancestors and what I can see, I'd bet all my money on splash. It tends to be much trickier like sabino when it comes to hiding itself for generation after generation, and frame has more of a tendency to crop up physically at SOME point.

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post #4 of 26 Old 04-27-2010, 10:39 PM
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I can't answer your question, but she is beautiful!!
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post #5 of 26 Old 04-28-2010, 02:29 AM
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Is there frame in the breed? I'm not sure.

Splash tend to be bottom heavy. But really, the only way to KNOW is to test. It's only $25.
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post #6 of 26 Old 04-28-2010, 03:15 AM
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^^ Yup, they do have frame. So if you're going to breed her, definitely test her. If you're not, then you can still do so to satisfy your own curiousity :)
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post #7 of 26 Old 04-28-2010, 06:34 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies!

CheyAut - You can test for splash?! Where can I get it done?
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post #8 of 26 Old 04-28-2010, 08:53 AM
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No, you need to test for frame. If she's LWO negative, then you know she has splash since she has blue eyes. If she's positive it's possible she still has splash.
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post #9 of 26 Old 04-28-2010, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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She can't be negative for LWO and still be frame?
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post #10 of 26 Old 04-28-2010, 11:59 AM
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