"There's no market for middle-class horses. We raise middle-class horses." - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

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post #11 of 29 Old 01-19-2010, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Cowgirl Kristin View Post
Who the heck wants to classify their horse? Classes are defined by financial status. Horses are owned by low class, middle class, or high class people. Horses are horses, they aren't keeping tabs on status. So I could see why you would find it offensive. She basically called you "middle class."

First what is wrong with being middle class???

As to horses not being in different classes. I have to disagree with that. They may not keep track if it however there are definitely different class of horses. The price they can command shows that.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
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post #12 of 29 Old 01-19-2010, 07:18 PM
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I agree with Reiner, horses come in different classes. I have at least one from every class out in my pasture right now. I have everything from working low class mustangs to former upper class winning show horses and everything in between. Me, I'm middle class but not all my horses are.

As for the type of program the guy has, I would have to see what caliber of horses he was turning out. Are they showing or winning at anything? Are they excelling at anything even if they aren't showing; ranch work, trail riding, etc.? Bloodlines are nice but they don't always make a horse. I have seen some really well bred horses that I wouldn't throw my saddle on for all the rice in china and I have a mutt of a horse that I wouldn't sell for all the money in the world. So there are a lot of variables here to consider.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
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post #13 of 29 Old 01-20-2010, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jules083 View Post
I think like a lot of you are saying is right, most people think they have something that is worth a lot more money than it really is. I own what most people would call a 'junk' horse. She's 11 years old half perchon and half paint with no papers that I bought for $300 off a lady that couldn't afford to keep her any more. I've gone on trail rides with people that had a lot more money than me in their horses, then Gypsy and I stood there and watched their high dollar, well bred, professionally trained horse act like an idiot.

That said, if I tried to sell Gypsy, she is a 'junk' horse, and I'd probably only get $300 to $500 for her. Noone would want her. Most people that can afford to feed, shoe, and care for a horse would spend the extra money to get something 'better'. I have never found a better horse, she does exactely what I want her to do.

Long story short, There's nothing wrong with having middle class or lower middle class horses, as long as you realise this and are willing to admit it. I also usually don't pay attention to what horse 'experts' say when talking about stuff like this, most of them seem to have no idea what they're talking about. I just agree with them and enjoy my junk horse when they're not around.
Don't sell Gypsy short. Not everyone looks for papers or purebreds. The most expensive part of a good using horse is the training. So if you have a well behaved, reasonably trained trail horse, I find that MUCH more desirable than something that has papers or looks but no manners or training. And I would love to have a draft cross! I spent $2000 for a BLM Mustang because he was a well trained, wonderful trail horse, and to get another horse like him I would gladly pay that much all over again (or more!)

I really wish you COULD put a price on a good horse, then you would know how much you have to pay to get a decent horse. As it stands right now, someone could give you a wonderful horse for free, or a few hundred dollars, OR you could spend thousands and get a raving lunatic. I wish I knew the secret formula for paying "X" and getting a good trail horse in return!

As some folks are fond of saying, "you don't ride the papers!"
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post #14 of 29 Old 01-20-2010, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by trailhorserider View Post
As some folks are fond of saying, "you don't ride the papers!"
I like this quote. Even with papers nothing is guaranteed. There are allot of "top dollar" horses out there that I wont spend $10 for.
In my eyes worth is on training. When I see how much some people pay for a horse that kicks, bites, rears, or bucks all I can do is shake my head.
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post #15 of 29 Old 01-20-2010, 12:05 PM
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Middle Class or Mid Priced?

Could it be an issue of semantics here? I don't know the mentality of those in the horse market wherever this conversation took place, but it seems that people either want to pay next to nothing for a horse or spend a fortune for one. A friend of mine trains and sells horses and he sees that alot. He picked up a horse for nothing that looked to have potential as jumper, did a little training with it and tried to resell it for $1000. He received a few calls about it but no-one wanted it. He checked what schooling jumpers in his area were selling for, changed the price to $10,000 and it sold very quickly. Some people only want a deal regardless of the quality of the animal, and some people want to brag about how much their horse cost I guess.

Anyway, I don't know the quality of the horses accused of being "middle-class", not that that is an insult as far as I am concerned, but if these horses do not sell for either top-dollar or bottom-dollar for their market/breed/discipline then they are middle class horses by the market definition of it anyway. All of my horses are "upper class" in my eyes, but I also realize that by the market definition they would be middle to low class.
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post #16 of 29 Old 01-20-2010, 12:55 PM
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I admire her honesty. No need to stroke someone's ego by lying. Middle class would mean nice horses but you don't see them competing at the top circuits and winning.
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post #17 of 29 Old 01-20-2010, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Also I have found that people who think that their low class horses are middle class and middle class horses are upper level horses have a hard time moving forward and improving.
Very true. For me its quite the opposite. I don't push my horses hard enough

Most people have middle class horses. Maybe she means middle class as middle quality? Very few have high class horses, because the market dictates they are more valuable. And well lets face it, most horse owners arent made of money.

If you have a somewhat decent horse, who performs well, I would consider them middle class. For PSG horses I would consider them above middle class, because they are great performers, and above average. Low class horses are going to have alot of defaults and training issues. I think some horses can raise classes depending on the training, but some never can. My mare will never be high class, she's got some good lines in her papers, but she's got navicular and is unridable. My qh is definitely middle class, to low class. He's got almost no training, and was dirt cheep. He will hopefully rise to middle class/middle quality once he's got professional training.
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post #18 of 29 Old 01-20-2010, 03:19 PM
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There is always a market for a well trained horse with a good temperament, regardless of papers. I have been offered good money for a horse that I saved from the lowliest of environments. He is not much to look at but when you see him stop when the little seven year old riding him barely whispers "whoa" you know he's golden (I can't sell him). It is hard to sell babies, or unbroke older horses.
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post #19 of 29 Old 01-20-2010, 03:31 PM
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Now I do not have a hard time selling babies/foals or even yearlings to long yearlings. That is actually my best market is long yearlings.

Since the OP was talking about this persons program I am thinking they are talking more of a breeding program and what I have found a lot of the time is that a lot of breeders can not afford to keep their foals so they let them go cheep or perhaps less then what they THINK they should get b/c they need to move them. To me these are the breeders who need to stop and rethink what they are doing. Dose not mean their program is good or bad but needs some thought put into it. Might be horses marketing or both.

So when you are talking prospects breeding has a lot to do with what a foal will bring. It also had to do with how people will look at these horses and who will buy them and for how much.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
-Where ever free speech is stifled Tyranny will reign.
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post #20 of 29 Old 01-20-2010, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Now I do not have a hard time selling babies/foals or even yearlings to long yearlings. That is actually my best market is long yearlings.
NRHAREINER would you consider your horses middle class? Just curious
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