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post #21 of 29 Old 01-20-2010, 05:57 PM
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More upper middle class. They are all by very proven stallions out of proven mares and proven crosses. They are trained shown and proven in the ring.

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post #22 of 29 Old 01-21-2010, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by trailhorserider View Post
Don't sell Gypsy short. Not everyone looks for papers or purebreds. The most expensive part of a good using horse is the training. So if you have a well behaved, reasonably trained trail horse, I find that MUCH more desirable than something that has papers or looks but no manners or training. And I would love to have a draft cross! I spent $2000 for a BLM Mustang because he was a well trained, wonderful trail horse, and to get another horse like him I would gladly pay that much all over again (or more!)

I really wish you COULD put a price on a good horse, then you would know how much you have to pay to get a decent horse. As it stands right now, someone could give you a wonderful horse for free, or a few hundred dollars, OR you could spend thousands and get a raving lunatic. I wish I knew the secret formula for paying "X" and getting a good trail horse in return!

As some folks are fond of saying, "you don't ride the papers!"
Believe me I'm not selling her short one bit. To me she's worth every bit of $2000 due to her training and level-head. She's one of the best horses I've ever ridden. Suits my riding style perfectely. Fact of the matter is though I'd never be able to get that kind of money out of her, because a lot of people do try to ride the papers. I figure she'll get old, get retired, and live out her life here.
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post #23 of 29 Old 01-23-2010, 02:19 PM
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The wife and he didnt seem to be on the right page; granted, he may have taken six years to put together a sucessful breeding program that has worked for him. Some people may refer to his horses as "middle class" while others may have a totally different stand point because of where their own paticular veiws are. All of our horses that we have are middle class. Yes, they are registered. Yes, our APHA mare that is registered has siblings that have ROMs. But they dont have extensive show records, are not highly bred for anything special. A good horse is a good horse, no matter what "class" they are supposedly in.

Shaneequah, 1998 gaited Bashkir CurlyxArab mare
Treyue, 1999 3-gaited Icelandic gelding
Loki, 2001-2015 Icelandic gelding
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post #24 of 29 Old 01-23-2010, 05:40 PM
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I come from an upper-middle/lower upper class family. I would say my horse is a lower upper/upper middle class horse, we got him as a 4yo for a relatively high price and he had prestigious parents. However, I don't see what is wrong with a middle class horse at all. Many people and many horses are in this group, I think it is a very important class.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are certain and the intelligent are full of doubt"
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post #25 of 29 Old 01-23-2010, 07:09 PM
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I don't see it as an insult whatsoever. Kudos to her for not having her head in the clouds. My grandpa worked on his program for over 30 years - he had middle class horses at best. They were decent quality, and he has a ton of trophies from local events, but that's all. The main focus of his program, was ironically attempting to create a "Pintabian" long before they became a breed.

He had a good market for his horses back in the day, but that didn't change him from being middle class in my opinion. His horses were not expensive, the market was simply different and people bought his horses for the training he put into them, not for their pedigrees.

I don't think my grandpa would have ever fooled himself into thinking he had upper class animals. He knew what he had and was proud of it.

I hope God tells her to smash her computer with a sledgehammer.

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post #26 of 29 Old 01-23-2010, 07:30 PM
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I don't find it offensive at all....You middle class people are just too sensitive. :op

((((***hint of sarcasim***)))

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post #27 of 29 Old 01-23-2010, 09:00 PM
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I don't find it offensive at all....You middle class people are just too sensitive. :op
HOWDAREYOU!!! -wields pitchfork and fire-

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There they are all standing in a row

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post #28 of 29 Old 01-25-2010, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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Location: Kansas
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Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
That is just it and part of the problem. If what he has is middle class horses and he dose not realize this then he is going to have a problem marketing them. Also I have found that people who think that their low class horses are middle class and middle class horses are upper level horses have a hard time moving forward and improving.

There is nothing wrong with MC horses but if that is what you have then do one of 2 things. Live with it and do not take offense to it or improve. Sometimes honesty is what people need in their breeding program.
You know, you do a pretty good job at stepping on my toes, you know it? Sure know how to get me riled up. Kevin shows, and won't sell a colt off the ground for less than $3000 unless it comes up a dud. (Bad confo) His horses are shown and his stallion proven, but when it comes down to the fact that your wife is going to demean you in front of your friends about the animals you take pride in, I can see where there inlies a problem. I can understand where you're coming from, I can see a nicer way of saying the things you do. But when you're basically taking over a program that's been in the works for 40+ years, and you have show records like the progeny of his relatives, and what his colts come out like, with their sound bodies, and likeable minds, and calm temperaments, you'd take pride in it. I just kinda wondered if there was anyone else that would be offended if your spouse put your program down in front of two other people that really appreciated what you had in your barn?

Originally Posted by smrobs View Post
As for the type of program the guy has, I would have to see what caliber of horses he was turning out. Are they showing or winning at anything? Are they excelling at anything even if they aren't showing; ranch work, trail riding, etc.? Bloodlines are nice but they don't always make a horse. I have seen some really well bred horses that I wouldn't throw my saddle on for all the rice in china and I have a mutt of a horse that I wouldn't sell for all the money in the world. So there are a lot of variables here to consider.
I have never been on a more cowy horse, with more of a mind to learn than the ones he has produced. My husband and I have been riding some of his horses up through some of the roughest ground you'll see in the state of Montana. We're talking temperatures below -30, windchills of -50, snow blowing, climbing up and down slopes steeper than I would with a pair of cleats. These suckers have the heart to go all day, and then some. And that's been the dozen that we've had here in the last 6mos. Every single one of them. Anywhere from 2 yr olds to 10yr olds... they're all the same. For where I stand, for the price he sells them at, they're gold!

Originally Posted by nrhareiner View Post
Since the OP was talking about this persons program I am thinking they are talking more of a breeding program and what I have found a lot of the time is that a lot of breeders can not afford to keep their foals so they let them go cheep or perhaps less then what they THINK they should get b/c they need to move them. To me these are the breeders who need to stop and rethink what they are doing. Dose not mean their program is good or bad but needs some thought put into it. Might be horses marketing or both.

So when you are talking prospects breeding has a lot to do with what a foal will bring. It also had to do with how people will look at these horses and who will buy them and for how much.
I know that they spare no expense to have the best for every horse on their place. They breed between 4 and 8 a year, (of their 25 or so broodmares) to maintain their mares and keep them ridden and in good, using shape. And they'll keep 'em if they can't pick up the price they ask. This does not affect their turnaround, and if they want to sell one, they can advertise by word of mouth, and get it sold. A lot of repeat customers... I know a man that has 3 full brothers to a colt he foaled this year, and the guy wants #4, because he likes them that much. He shows in ABRA mainly, but that's not to say they're not being proven.

I just don't understand how a person can put their spouse down in front of people obviously supporting his program, and be ok with that.. I just don't know, maybe it's because she's NOT a horseperson, and maybe it's because she doesn't have 4-8 people waiting in line for a baby each year. IDK. Maybe it's because SHE thinks they're worth more than they are and she's disappointed at what they bring each year. IDK... I just found it severely rude.
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post #29 of 29 Old 01-25-2010, 10:02 PM
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I am a firm believer that most horses fall in the "middle class".
Pedigree, training, conformation, heart, talent, and the right person to help the horse reach his or her potential are what it takes to rise to the upper class in any discipline.

I think as breeders most of us strive to produce a foal with the raw material and get them into the hands of those that can take them to the next step and have them become top of thier game, be it great games horse, top jumper, dressage, reiner or whatever.

After all Secretariat would just a Chestnut Tb (albeit great looking one) if he didn't race and stood around in someones backyard.

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