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Warmbloods & Warmblood Crosses

This is a discussion on Warmbloods & Warmblood Crosses within the Horse Breeds forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • 3/4 thoroughbred 1/4 shire warmblood
  • What type of warmblood is a thoroughbred shire cross

 
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    03-14-2009, 07:41 PM
  #21
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by eventerdrew    
I have an American Warmblood mare (3/4 Thoroughbred and 1/4 Shire). Her dam was a JC registered TB and her sire was 1/2 TB and 1/2 Shire.

She's my Beginner Novice eventer
Is this horse registered with the AWS or AWR?
     
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    03-15-2009, 12:57 PM
  #22
Weanling
I've had warmbloods for the past 5 years, and I honestly would likely never have anything else. As a rule, I like their movement, I like their size, I like their look and for the most part, I enjoy their minds.

I have two right now.
A 6 year old Trakehner gelding, Enrique


And a soon to be 4 year old Holsteiner gelding, Costa, who is being started Tuesday!
     
    03-15-2009, 02:46 PM
  #23
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder    
Is this horse registered with the AWS or AWR?
Neither. From what I understand she can't be registered anymore. Or at least not go through inspections. She was going to but she had a sequestrum (Dead bone from a kick) when she was three and had surgery. She has a lump on her leg that doesn't hurt her but it's not pretty. I would love to have her registered as her sisters and brothers have all been Premiums
     
    03-15-2009, 02:55 PM
  #24
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by eventerdrew    
Neither. From what I understand she can't be registered anymore. Or at least not go through inspections. She was going to but she had a sequestrum (Dead bone from a kick) when she was three and had surgery. She has a lump on her leg that doesn't hurt her but it's not pretty. I would love to have her registered as her sisters and brothers have all been Premiums

Two things here. First you do not have a warmblood as draft/TB cross is not a WB. Hot blood and cold blood does not equate to WB.

Now second your horse CAN be registered AWS based on two possibilities.

By inspection...in this case get a vet to write up what is wrong with her and why it may affect the gait.

By performance....you said she has performed? Get those records to show what she has done and even if they are not quite acceptable to get approved via performance they will go a long way in getting her approved via inspection.

American Warmblood Society:
     
    03-15-2009, 03:11 PM
  #25
Green Broke
Don't get me started on what's a warmblood and what's not. I could go on about it for days. Although people say it's not that simple, it is. Many warmblood registries (including the AWS and AWR) equate a TB/draft cross as a warmblood.

She is defined as an American Warmblood. Her brothers and sisters have all been Premiums in inspection. I've had this conversation with so many people I can't even count.

Just because my horse is a draft cross and wasn't bought for five figures doesn't mean she's not a warmblood

Her sequestrum doesn't affect her gait. It's just ugly

I have read the AWS website many many times over the years. People who think warmbloods are just purebreds obviously need to read up. As a quote from the website, having a "purebred hanoverian" is an oxymoron. The only real purebred is the Arabian. European standards are much more strict but seeing as my horse IS an American Warmblood, I go by much looser standards
     
    03-15-2009, 03:26 PM
  #26
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by eventerdrew    
Don't get me started on what's a warmblood and what's not. I could go on about it for days. Although people say it's not that simple, it is. Many warmblood registries (including the AWS and AWR) equate a TB/draft cross as a warmblood.

She is defined as an American Warmblood. Her brothers and sisters have all been Premiums in inspection. I've had this conversation with so many people I can't even count.

Just because my horse is a draft cross and wasn't bought for five figures doesn't mean she's not a warmblood

Her sequestrum doesn't affect her gait. It's just ugly

I have read the AWS website many many times over the years. People who think warmbloods are just purebreds obviously need to read up. As a quote from the website, having a "purebred hanoverian" is an oxymoron. The only real purebred is the Arabian. European standards are much more strict but seeing as my horse IS an American Warmblood, I go by much looser standards
actually it does mean exactly that. She isn't a warmblood. She is a draft cross. Warmbloods aren't purebreds-many have arab and thoroughbred influence, but they are a TYPE of breed that originated from Europe because of a very controlled breeding program.

If you really want to label your draft cross as a warmblood, by all means, do so. But its wrong and misleading and one of the reasons why so many PMU farms got their butts handed to them in lawsuits because they we're labelling their PMU crosses as Canadian Warmbloods and Canadian Sport Horses. It's also why the American Warmblood Society is considered a joke amongst the vast majority of breeders; just because some of the stuff that they have accepted should never have been granted a liscence for ANYTHING, let alone breeding.

Here's a really good article that not only explains what a warmblood is, but what the different breeding organizations look for.
http://www.sonestafarms.com/wbinfo.htm
     
    03-15-2009, 03:29 PM
  #27
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by eventerdrew    
Don't get me started on what's a warmblood and what's not. I could go on about it for days. Although people say it's not that simple, it is. Many warmblood registries (including the AWS and AWR) equate a TB/draft cross as a warmblood.

She is defined as an American Warmblood. Her brothers and sisters have all been Premiums in inspection. I've had this conversation with so many people I can't even count.

Just because my horse is a draft cross and wasn't bought for five figures doesn't mean she's not a warmblood

Her sequestrum doesn't affect her gait. It's just ugly
First the AWR DOES NOT ACCEPT draft crosses and they DO NOT equate draft crosses as warmbloods.

Now the AWS is a little more lenient allowing draft crosses within their registry if they pass the requirements but get this it is a PERFORMANCE registry first with breeding requirements set at a higher pass requirement and because of that a FEW non warmbloods may be acceptable but that does mean that they equate non warmbloods (specifically draft crosses as warmbloods).

It has been said many times that the AWS should have been named as the American Sport Horse Society to reduce the confusion and I agree. What really gets me when everyone and their uncle state their draft cross either in conversation or more specifically advertisements that they have a AMERICAN WARMBLOOD when they never applied for registration or have papers to validate their claim. I would like to strangle them.

It is FALSE advertisement and is one of the reasons the AWS specifically has to keep defending itself. People need to be aware that unless the animal has ACTUAL full registration papers (not just "oh I applied but did nothing after" papers) stating they have an American Warmblood then they do NOT have one in reality or by default !

You have the opportunity to get it done as I have stated previously and until you do...you have a draft cross ...or TB cross.
     
    03-17-2009, 07:56 PM
  #28
Green Broke
Then I have to ask you this- why has her sister, Sequoia gotten a PREMIUM at an AWR inspection, huh???? She is out a TB mare and the SAME stallion. Seems difficult for me to believe they don't accept draft crosses into their books when she has a brand and papers to prove it

Before I get kicked off this forum for strangling someone, I would just like to say that everyone that comes up to me (including warmblood breeders) and asks me what she is, I tell them 3/4 TB 1/4 Shire. And their response is "oh an Am. WB". I believe the warmblood breeders and the AWS more than a bunch of people on a forum. Sorry but that's what she's registered with her registries as and it is not false advertising. Maybe people sitting on their high horse will say i'm wrong but most people will say that she is an American Warmblood. We checked with both registries early in her 3 year old year and they both said they would take her.

So i'm going to laugh this off and go about my business and will continue to say she is an AWB. Because that's what she is (so says the licensed breeder, so says the AWS/whatever other registry, so says my trainer who has been to Rolex and back)
     
    03-17-2009, 08:39 PM
  #29
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by eventerdrew    
then I have to ask you this- why has her sister, Sequoia gotten a PREMIUM at an AWR inspection, huh???? She is out a TB mare and the SAME stallion. Seems difficult for me to believe they don't accept draft crosses into their books when she has a brand and papers to prove it
First off horses with 1/4 draft can be accepted. They used to accept 1/2 draft but changed the rules a while ago. Second to get around the draft breeding in some horses they simply put "unknown" and if they happen to look good MARES could get accepted fairly easily.

Just because the 1/2 sister to your horse or even the FULL sister got accepted does not mean the your horse is automatically a WB by default. Even a full brother to an approved Hanovarian cannot claim approval based on what his relatives are. Without inspection/papers you simply have a draft cross....nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eventerdrew    
Before I get kicked off this forum for strangling someone, I would just like to say that everyone that comes up to me (including warmblood breeders) and asks me what she is, I tell them 3/4 TB 1/4 Shire. And their response is "oh an Am. WB".
Just because someone has a horse that may move like a WB and does not make it a WB because someone "thinks" it is. It is the mentality of the ignorant that don't know the difference. People like you that insist they have something they don't does not help to educate those that don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eventerdrew    
I believe the warmblood breeders and the AWS more than a bunch of people on a forum.
So you know who is a WB breeder and have knowledge of AWS/AWR here on this forum? I showed you a way to get your horse accepted at least into the AWS because I have extensive knowledge of this registry and you simply threw the information back in my face.:roll:


Quote:
Originally Posted by eventerdrew    
Sorry but that's what she's registered with her registries as and it is not false advertising.
So you were mistaken when you previously stated she is NOT registered? Or did you just send in the papers,paid a fee and assumed all is good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eventerdrew    
Maybe people sitting on their high horse will say i'm wrong but most people will say that she is an American Warmblood. We checked with both registries early in her 3 year old year and they both said they would take her.
My client just bought a Appy and I am sure they would take it also...but until it gets papers it is simply an appy....nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eventerdrew    
So i'm going to laugh this off and go about my business and will continue to say she is an AWB. Because that's what she is (so says the licensed breeder, so says the AWS/whatever other registry, so says my trainer who has been to Rolex and back)
You keep reversing yourself. First she has papers, now she doesn't and maybe the reason people say draft crosses are WBs is because of the type of "I don't care because she is what I WANT her to be to call her" mentality.

To me you should be enjoying your horse for what it is rather than making it into something "better" or "different"...very sad really.
     
    03-17-2009, 09:20 PM
  #30
Weanling
Guidelines for Registration, Nomination or Recording. (Click here for Registration Forms)
All AWS sport horses/ponies may be evaluated on their own qualities and/or performance records. Hot-bloods, cold-bloods, warmbloods and all crosses are eligible, previously registered (see Recording below) or non-registered as long as the horse/pony is breeding for, training for, or participating in one of the four disciplines that the AWS supports (Dressage, Eventing, Jumping or Combined Driving). Minimum size is 13.0hh (can be waived with proof of performance - required prior to registration). Eligibility for Registration
To be eligible for registration a horse/pony can be of any breed stock or combination thereof, except 100% hot- blood (Thoroughbred or Arabian) or 100% cold-blood (draft breeds). (see Nomination below).
Eligibility for Nomination
To be eligible for nomination a horse/pony can be 100% hot-blood (Thoroughbred or Arabian) or 100% cold-blood (draft breeds). All AWS benefits are the same as registered warmbloods.
Eligibility for Recording
To be eligible for recording the horse/pony has been previously registered with another registry. All AWS benefits are the same as registered warmbloods.




I have learned as well that TB/Draft horses are American Warmbloods. Listed above came from the American Warmblood Society website, clearly stating that a tb/draft is one type of American Warmblood.
On another note, why does it matter so much if this horse is or isn't a warmblood? Enjoy the pictures, and get on with it. In reality, it doesn't really matter.
     

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