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Wow this is terrible!!!

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        01-06-2008, 08:21 PM
      #21
    tim
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by horse_luver4e
    You would think that they would want there bones and joints to be strong enough to last.
    HA! No. The owners don't care. You've seen them. They sit up in their luxurious little boxes and preside over the race. Then if the horse wins they come down and pretend it was all their doing. All the time, they can't take their eyes off the check they're about to recieve (as if they needed the money.) If it doesn't win, they go to the parking lot and get in their monster SUV and drive away.

    The trainers have no reason to care either. They're paid to produce winner's and if the horse isn't winning they're just as happy to get rid of it. It's not like it's their horse anyway...

    That's the problem, there's no real sense of ownership unless the horse is a big winner. The real owners are so distant and the trainers just train. No one (or no one with any power) really cares for the animals on a personal level.

    If only every racehorse were lucky enough to be a big winner... :roll:
         
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        01-06-2008, 08:34 PM
      #22
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by horse_luver4e
    Well said jazzyrider.

    I can't belive the abuse some of those racehorses go through. Why do they race 2 and 3 year old anyway? You would think that they would want there bones and joints to be strong enough to last.
    i wholeheartedly agree. Racehorses don't need to be started so young. They could quite easily go through the same breaking routine at a reasonable age and then start racing at 4 and still have plenty of time for winning and a reasonable career that wont put their future health and soundness in jeopardy. A horse can run as fast as a 4 year old as it could as a 2 year old. The problem is, these money hungry owners who want to get everyone on the track ASAP simply don't care as they have the money that's lining their pockets to go out and buy another yearling to do the same thing to in the hope that the next one will win them a million. And so on. Its a continuing spiral of young horses started too young, injured or proven no good for racing and then tossed aside and then the circle starts again. It really makes me sick that the life of a horse is seen in much the same way as a disposable camera or razor...use it while you need it and then throw it away
         
        01-06-2008, 08:35 PM
      #23
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by horse_luver4e
    Well said jazzyrider.

    I can't belive the abuse some of those racehorses go through. Why do they race 2 and 3 year old anyway? You would think that they would want there bones and joints to be strong enough to last.
    thanks :) I thought so too ;)
         
        01-06-2008, 09:05 PM
      #24
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alucard
    I'd just like to say that every discipline in horsemanship where the horse doesn't perform like it would in a pasture is extreme, dangerous and sometimes unhealthy.

    Show jumping:

    Horses are not deer. They are not built to handle impact to their joints like deer...period.

    Dressage.

    NO ONE uses horses for military anymore. NO ONE. Therefore all those fancy pirouettes and stuff are useless and impractical...although pretty to watch.

    Rodeo (cow roping and Bronc Riding and wild Mare Race):

    No respectable cowboy would EVER treat a horse or a cow that way.. Both of those animals are worth money. Anyone that has a working ranch and raises cows would NEVER treat animal that way. And they would be disgusted with people that do.

    Gaited Horse Shows:

    I'm not sure what the point is...other than to see a horse walk strangely...and who can do it the best. Lol.

    Horse racing and Steeplechase:

    CRUEL!!!! You want to talk about abuse! Racing babies is not my idea of a good time.Then abusing them and throwing them away because they don't win. Rubbish. I want to take all of the racing tb's and keep them in a barn where nice people won't ride them till their bones harden and they're mentally ready for riding safely. Plus I'll go back to my show jumping statement for steeplechase in saying that horses are NOT DEER! Period.

    Reining and Barrel Racing:

    Both hard on the joints but I would say kinder to the mouth than some dressage people, although I have seen some women really crank on their horses mouths for barrels, which isn't nice.

    IN SUMMATION!!! People use horses for unnatural things that they don't do in the wild, which can be considered cruel...I know that it's about a relationship with your animal and that you're doing something that is really unique to watch and all....And don't get me wrong! I'm a western and english girl! I do jumping and reining and all, but all disciplines are mean in some way or another, because none of them are natural.. Don't try to tell me that a horse trots in place in the wild (dressage people) and don't tell me that a horse spins on its heels (reining people). It just doesn't happen.
    regarding your dressage accusations.......you haven't seen my stallion doing canter pirouettes with a bucket in his mouth in his paddock!! And yes, SOME horses DO trot on the spot when really excited, I've SEEN them!! They certainley passage now don't they? I even have video on my phone of my stallion doing the pirouettes! They are textbook perfect too........
    (when a horse is bred specifically for a certain discipline it is bred into them to perform the maneuvours to some extent.
    I don't think being mean is quite the right thing to say about sport horses..... I take FULL offense to that, my horses are treated better than I treat myself, and they fully enjoy their 'work'.
         
        01-06-2008, 09:14 PM
      #25
    Foal
    Someone implied that two year olds run in two mile races...That's not at all true, at least here. In the US, they don't even have two mile races for older horses. Most two year olds race under a mile. Two year olds also do not race in the Melbourne Cup, which is for horses three years old and up.

    They actually did studies to see if starting a horse's racing career later (4 or older) was safer. It actually turned out to be more dangerous, because their bones hadn't been adjusted to that kind of stress.

    Regarding owners...My partners and I own a filly who is really nice, but not really good enough to run in anything but claiming races. We were "not caring" enough that she got regular massage therapy for her cold back, vacations on the farm, etc. Now she's enjoying retirement at a very beautiful farm. Poor abused thing. I'm not going to be naive and say that everyone in the racing industry is 100% ethical. But to generalize everyone who owns racehorses as abusive or uncaring or just in it for the money is completely wrong.
         
        01-06-2008, 09:24 PM
      #26
    Weanling
    I have to agree with tranquilo honestly stating all this about race horses is wrong. They pretty much did selective breeding to do all this so that the horses can take it and run that fast. Just like with racing dogs selective breeding of course. You wouldn't see a wolf running like greyhounds now would you? Of course not...

    Also I don't think I know anyone that trains their horse at 5 years old that's just strange. Most normal people start their horses at 2 or 3.

    Also the reason you might think racing is so bad is just because of the press just like with celebrities they only wanna post what people might find interesting. Of course they are going to choose to post about that one horse that got put down over the tons of horses that got pampered. Now why would a horse being pampered be interesting to the public? Also they like to get this type of reaction out of people. Although some racers really do have bad situations most of them really are kind and pamper their horses daily.

    And I wouldn't quite call western and english the best types of NON cruel so to speak disciplines. Honestly I think forcing a horse to hold its head a certain way to look good is wrong and more stressfull than making a horse run. My horse loves to run so I don't see why that would be so stressfull and hard compared to learning a certain motion of the legs or jumping formation.

    Although I have no problems with any of the disciplines because honestly in every discipline there is someone that does wrong its not just one specific discipline that does wrong. Well that's just my 2 cents.
         
        01-06-2008, 09:47 PM
      #27
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tranquilo
    Someone implied that two year olds run in two mile races...That's not at all true, at least here. In the US, they don't even have two mile races for older horses. Most two year olds race under a mile. Two year olds also do not race in the Melbourne Cup, which is for horses three years old and up.

    They actually did studies to see if starting a horse's racing career later (4 or older) was safer. It actually turned out to be more dangerous, because their bones hadn't been adjusted to that kind of stress.

    Regarding owners...My partners and I own a filly who is really nice, but not really good enough to run in anything but claiming races. We were "not caring" enough that she got regular massage therapy for her cold back, vacations on the farm, etc. Now she's enjoying retirement at a very beautiful farm. Poor abused thing. I'm not going to be naive and say that everyone in the racing industry is 100% ethical. But to generalize everyone who owns racehorses as abusive or uncaring or just in it for the money is completely wrong.
    ok so I chose, for examples sake, a race people in other countries may have heard of.
         
        01-06-2008, 09:50 PM
      #28
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jr_lover
    I have to agree with tranquilo honestly stating all this about race horses is wrong. They pretty much did selective breeding to do all this so that the horses can take it and run that fast. Just like with racing dogs selective breeding of course. You wouldn't see a wolf running like greyhounds now would you? Of course not...

    Also I don't think I know anyone that trains their horse at 5 years old that's just strange. Most normal people start their horses at 2 or 3.

    Also the reason you might think racing is so bad is just because of the press just like with celebrities they only wanna post what people might find interesting. Of course they are going to choose to post about that one horse that got put down over the tons of horses that got pampered. Now why would a horse being pampered be interesting to the public? Also they like to get this type of reaction out of people. Although some racers really do have bad situations most of them really are kind and pamper their horses daily.

    And I wouldn't quite call western and english the best types of NON cruel so to speak disciplines. Honestly I think forcing a horse to hold its head a certain way to look good is wrong and more stressfull than making a horse run. My horse loves to run so I don't see why that would be so stressfull and hard compared to learning a certain motion of the legs or jumping formation.

    Although I have no problems with any of the disciplines because honestly in every discipline there is someone that does wrong its not just one specific discipline that does wrong. Well that's just my 2 cents.
    rollkur is nasty and is a subject of much controversy. But, when I horse is supple and on the bit so that their head is down, it is actually much better for the horse as he is carrying the riders weight in a way that is more comfortable and less damaging. From what I know, and I ride english, basically all dressage movements are enhancements of natural moving. As mentioned earlier, a horse can be seen frolicking in the paddock performing many of the movements that are perfected through dressage.

    And yes, most horses love to run and that in itself is not damaging. Its the age and extent to which this happens that is the issue. I have worked for a few trainers in the past and have seen it with my own eyes. The injuries that the vet has said himself have resulted from being too young etc its a simple fact that can't be argued by those who believe that it is not the case. I do agree that there are probably some out there who pamper their horses etc but why?? So they will win. That's what it all comes down to...the money. But the majority of owners/trainers etc arent like that so millions of horses suffer while the small majority have reasonably adequate lives.

    My example of starting racing at 4 (not 5 as stated) is not all bad. I didnt say to start breaking them then. Breaking could begin earlier and the horse conditioned for racing starting at a later age. Im sure there is nothing wrong with that.

    Anyway, this is a dead issue to me as there is always going to be advocates and...what ever the opposite of them are I just wish more people out there would think about what they are really doing to their horses. Let a horse be a horse and then do what you want. A horse is a horse is a horse and those not allowed to be a horse are the ones we so often see posts about who are bad mannered, prone to injury, recovering from injury or other industry related issues.
         
        01-06-2008, 09:51 PM
      #29
    Yearling
    Your right, I don't think the people in the racing industry even care about horses welfare. And when they win, they act like the horse is the best thing in the world, but when they lose you can see the anger in there eyes. :roll:
         
        01-06-2008, 09:54 PM
      #30
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tranquilo
    My partners and I own a filly ... Now she's enjoying retirement at a very beautiful farm.
    How old is your retired filly?

    I am sure she is not sad to be retired at whatever age on a beautiful farm, but what about the racehorses that get retired to the auctions and end up at slaughter?
         

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