Bay or Brown?

My friend is swearing up and down that TC is a bay and my BO is saying he's just brown. His papers say brown but now that my friend is saying he looks like a bay, I'm starting to wonder.
His mane and tail are black underneath but the top is sun bleached.
(This is seriously his cleanest, I made sure he was SQUEAKY clean for this show so none of it is dirt hahaha)

If his mane sunbleaches then he is brown.

A bay mane/tail doesnt sunbleach.

Um, beg to differ.

Phoenix is most definitely bay



And most definitely sun bleaches.





In regards to your horse Phantom, I would say brown.

I would say dark bay. My mare is a bay and is my gelding, her mane bleaches a little too. I haven't seen his get bleached yet.

I thought browns had a lighter muzzle, looks dark bay to me.

Can't really tell from this pic. The horse is sparkling clean and beautiful, but the shadows cover parts of the horse that we need to see such as the face and the flank.

Are you sure phoenix is bay? Because I think he also looks brown.
and I say the OP's horse is also brown, while you can't see the muzzle to well you can see the flanks and how it is considerably lighter then the rest of the body.

Certain yes.

Winter coat.



And summer coat, where it is even more clear that he is definitely bay.

Ok in those pictures he certainly does look bay, just the above made it look like he had the lighter shade of muzzle, lately it seems like Bay is becomming more and more of a rare color lol

HC and OP I would say that both horses are brown. HC yours is just a lighter brown, and not the dark/almost black brown.