Bay or brown mare?

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Bay or brown mare?

This is a discussion on Bay or brown mare? within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
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    03-26-2013, 11:09 PM
Bay or brown mare?

Ok color wizards, what is this mare? Bay or brown? I was thinking brown due to the soft light points on the muzzle and underside, but ya'll know I'm color challenged so what do you think? This isn't my mare, just one where I board.


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    03-26-2013, 11:15 PM
She's a very lovely brown.

My best friend's Arab gelding is similarly colored at certain points during the year. Browns are also known for their color changing abilities (they'll rarely be the same color/shade two seasons in a row).
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    03-27-2013, 01:13 AM
I vote seal brown as well
    03-27-2013, 02:03 AM
I don't get the whole brown vs bay... Bc all the bays I know would actually be browns... And that would make bay rare? I don't get it.
    03-27-2013, 02:43 AM
I wouldn't say bay is rare I see regular bays all the time. I have a bay though he has pangre.
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    03-27-2013, 03:11 AM
Originally Posted by Wheatermay    
I don't get the whole brown vs bay... Bc all the bays I know would actually be browns... And that would make bay rare? I don't get it.
If you are confused, you can always test for it. It's not like we have just made it up to mess with people's heads, brown is a separate mutation to bay. They are genetically different. That is what the "brown vs bay" thing is.
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    03-27-2013, 03:26 AM
Originally Posted by Wheatermay    
I don't get the whole brown vs bay... Bc all the bays I know would actually be browns... And that would make bay rare? I don't get it.
The majority of the horses that are called "dark bay" are, in fact, brown. What makes a horse visually brown instead of bay is the lighter soft points (i.e.-places the sun wouldn't normally reach to cause fading, like the armpit, underside of the flank, and point of the buttock). True bays tend to be the lighter, more red bays (also called bright or blood bays).

Example: This picture is of Dakota, my old gelding, and Aristotle, a Holsteiner gelding that belonged to someone I know. Dakota is the shorter, true bay on the left. Notice how his coat is one, uniform color? Aristotle is the giant on the right. Most people would call him a dark bay, but he is actually brown. See the lighter areas under his elbow and flank?

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    03-27-2013, 04:43 AM
Bays have a uniform color to them.

Browns the lightened soft points with the brownish/orangey hue.

And bays with pangre/mealy have the lightened soft points too. But the soft points have a light creamy color to them instead. Like Jet for instance, my family calls him a mule because of his primitive pangre markings lol. Well in their defense I haven't a many stock breed horses with pangre either but I think he's adorable

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    03-27-2013, 01:42 PM
I understand your pain Wheatermay. For the longest time, I just thought my horse was a dark bay until someone on here corrected me that she is brown and I now see the error in my ways. Looking back, I can't see how I missed she was a brown, but I definitely see it now.

Like what was said above, the easiest way to spot a brown is the "cinnamon" coloured points on their muzzle, flanks, etc. The other giveaway is the sometimes drastic difference between Winter and Summer. Many browns look just like a Bay in summer and the lighter orangey points sort of blend into the rest of them, but then becomes more obvious in Winter when darker hair comes in. I've posted examples of my mare below, although I think at this point, you probably catch the drift.

Lilly a few summers ago - she has darkened significantly since then, but you can see how her lighter points kind of blend in with the rest of her and how I mistook her for Bay for the longest time. Her coat colour varies from year to year but has remained darker for the last few.

This is not a good picture because she was super fat this summer, but you can really see her lighter points on her inner legs, flanks and face.

Wintertime - lighter points really stand out. You won't see those softer points in Wintertime on a Bay like you do with a Brown.
    03-27-2013, 01:51 PM
So...browns can have a black mane and tail and legs?
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