Bay or brown mare? - Page 2

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Bay or brown mare?

This is a discussion on Bay or brown mare? within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        03-27-2013, 12:59 PM
    Yes - and I believe most do. Someone who is a little better versed in colour genetics can expand on this, but from what I understand, Bay and Brown are very similar genetically save for a slight variation that gives the Brown horse the softer points. I'm not very good at explaining, but I think that's the basic gist. Someone can correct me if I have misspoken.
    Wheatermay likes this.
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        03-27-2013, 01:30 PM
    Green Broke
    Correct- there are three known agouti mutations. Classic bay, wild bay, and seal bay (aka seal brown, brown, dark bay, black bay, etc). All of these affect black based horses by restricting black on the coat. All of these will have black manes and tails and black (to a varying degree) on the legs, unless some other gene is at play (pinto patterns, silver gene, etc.)

    Wild bay restricts black the most- the mane and tail are black, but the black on the legs stops very low, just around the fetlock. The rest of the body is a uniform reddish color (the exact shade can vary from horse to horse, but will be fairly consistent from season to season on the same horse) Wild bay is uncommon and is thought to be recessive to classic and seal bay. Classic bay is very similar in characteristics to wild bay (body is a uniform color without a lot of seasonal variation), but with the black going up higher on the legs, generally over the knees/hocks.

    Seal bay restricts black the least. It's trademark features are a high degree of seasonal variation and the lighter "soft points," especially on the winter coat. Seal bay horses are often so light in the summer that the appear to be classic bay, but darken in the winter. Some are nearly black (except for those tell-tale soft points!) year round.
    Glynnis and toto like this.
        03-28-2013, 10:28 AM
    I would say dark bay
        03-28-2013, 10:30 AM
    Originally Posted by Reiner8    
    I would say dark bay
    Any particular reason?
        03-28-2013, 11:08 AM
    Originally Posted by Reiner8    
    I would say dark bay
    How did you get that after I gave the photo examples of the difference btw bay, brown, and pangre.
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        03-28-2013, 11:34 AM
    I was in the same boat with you guys. The brown, black, bay thing drove me nuts! My horse was adviertised as a black and white when I bought her. Vet said she was a tri-colored tobiano. I thought she was a bay. Now I would say seal bay. Her muzzle, flank, behind her rear and tummy get lighter brown in winter. In summer she almost looks black. Her mane, tail and spots on her legs are black.

    Glynnis likes this.
        03-28-2013, 11:55 AM
    Definitely seal brown without a doubt. And I hate the term tri colored paint unless its one of those neat chimera paints its not tri colored its just a bay horse with white patterns.
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    Wheatermay and Oldhorselady like this.
        03-28-2013, 11:58 AM
    Oldhorselady...Your horse is beautiful!!!!!!There is another color thread "Your horse is not a tri-color. It's a bay Paint" with a lot of discussion. Your vet's comment calling it a tri-color made me mention this. A lot of flap about terminology.

    We have a Bay Paint in the barn and two Bay mares. At least the registeries call them bay. Until this thread I had no idea a horse with black mane, tail and points could be brown. This is all very interesting but since I don't breed and my braincells really don't want to spend a lot of time absorbing genetic information I will happily stick to the color info I have operating with for lo these many years. However, I will be looking at bays a little closer from here on out and thinking "Well, maybe...and maybe not." : )
        03-29-2013, 04:27 AM
    Ok I think I understand now.... Let me see if I can get this right.... I know they tend to be lighter around the their points... My gelding I always thought was a bay. I figured out his half brother was a brown, but of course he was typical brown! I posted my gelding before to figure him out, and I was told he was most likely a light brown. I'd like to see a true bay with a winter coat. Anyone got one of those? I get that the brown has alot of coat changes through the seasons. But I havent seen a single bay that I know have a winter coat without the lighter muzzle. So all the bays I know are actually browns... I don't think I know any bays, lol...

    So this my my gelding's face in summer and winter... See why I get confused.... lol.... A picture of a true bay in winter coat would be awesome though.... I know that people arent screwing with me, lol... I just don't understand bc I'm a visual person I think. I NEED a picture, lol...
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        03-29-2013, 04:30 AM
    Originally Posted by Peppy Barrel Racing    
    Definitely seal brown without a doubt. And I hate the term tri colored paint unless its one of those neat chimera paints its not tri colored its just a bay horse with white patterns.
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    Yes, but I honestly didnt know what a true tri color paint was. Just like most people. I NOW know my mare is a bay paint. It had to be explained to me! LOL But ALOT of people are very attacked to the tri-color "idea" for some reason and don't want to listen to it.

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