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Bay horse question

3K views 14 replies 9 participants last post by  NdAppy 
#1 ·
There is probably no easy answer to this, but I am curious, what makes one bay horse be a deep almost black looking bay, and what makes another horse be a firey red bay? And when breeding bays together, if you breed two dark bays are you going to get a dark bay? Or could they be any shade of bay? :lol:
 
#3 ·
You're right. There is no easy answer.

Sooty is one factor that can make horses different shades. Countershading is another. Both of these put dark hairs into the coat. Given that both of these are thought at this time to be independent of any specific colours, they may or may not be passed down to offspring.
 
#7 ·
Sooty and pangere can do that. BUT those are not the genes that affect what shade a color is expressed as. They modify it.

Basically black and red (chestnut/sorrel) are the only two base colors. Everything else is a modification of those color, i.e. a bay is a black that has had the color modified by agouti into restricting black to the "points," and so on and so forth with the rest of the genes. :)
 
#13 · (Edited)
Okay, I'm confused again!

I don't understand the term "brown." The points are still black. The mane/tail are still black. The body is brown. But it's still a bay, correct?

Case in point, here is my old Arabian gelding (in both summer and darker winter coats). I always thought of him as a dark bay. But I since I have joined this forum, I think he is "brown." But he's still a bay, right? Afterall, he has black points.

So anything that is any shade of brown with black points, I call a bay (unless it is something like buckskin of course). So is that correct? Or is "brown" totally something different? And if that is the case, how do you know you are looking at a brown vs. a dark shade of bay?

In other words, is "brown" simply a variation of bay? Or is "brown" NOT a variation of bay?
 

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#14 ·
Brown and bay are genetically different. brown is At, bay is A. However there are still varying shades of both due to other factors-- it can be hard to visually differentiate between the darkest A bays and the lightest At browns.

I have read somewhere that there is some evidence that a homozygous brown AtAt is usually LIGHTER than a heterozygous brown....?
 
#15 ·
I think I might have heard that too Eastowest. I just have no clue where I heard that.


On the Brown thing...

trailhorserider - Your guy looks brown. See how inn his winter coat he has lightening in the stifle area? That is usually a good indication of brown as well as the lightening of the color around the nostrils.

Brown can and do had black points.
 
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