been asked what I think of this face marking... am totally stumped!

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been asked what I think of this face marking... am totally stumped!

This is a discussion on been asked what I think of this face marking... am totally stumped! within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Tobi face
  • Equine white suppressing genes

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    07-12-2012, 03:23 PM
been asked what I think of this face marking... am totally stumped!

This mare has thrown a tobiano to a purebred Belgian stallion so she HAS to be tobi, and I think frame?? Just because the face white is so top heavy. But is there anything else??? I'm stumped!

Edit; I have permission to post this pic, and I apologise for the size of it!
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    07-12-2012, 03:29 PM
Green Broke
I think his blaze looks like a chicken leg with a bite taken out of it.

On a serious note, I am thinking tobi to because of the spots. I am thinking frame because the large amount of face white and lack of leg white. I don't see Spalsh, or sabino, because the white isn't really avoiding the eyes.
    07-12-2012, 03:53 PM
LOL actually lilkitty now that you mention it... XD XD XD

Yeah I didn't see any splash or sabino either, which is what had me so stumped. Wasn't even considering the way tobiano would factor into the face white.
    07-12-2012, 04:00 PM
Since she's thrown tobiano, yeah she has some in there, just not showing up. Though I've never known a tobiano horse to be so minimal as to not have any white markings whatsoever (besides facial).

I can't say much about how pinto genes contribute to facial markings. My TB has absolutely no pinto genes in his background and he has the most huge-ass star I've ever seen on a horse...
    07-12-2012, 04:03 PM
Pic, Reno? I would love to see one :) Sometimes large stars can be caused by frame, it depends on the placement of the star itself of course and frame is known to be in the TB breed (just uncommon - but how uncommon is it REALLY when frame doesn't express much if at all without another pattern gene?) - a large high-set star may indeed be caused by frame. Or it might just be a normal face marking, though the theory goes that all white on any horse is due to some pinto gene or another, and it just depends on which one they have as to the expression of it. I have a theory on expression that goes along the lines of there are white suppressing genes, and they're incomplete dominant, so if the horse gets one, its white is suppressed some, but if it gets two, its white is suppressed a LOT. Sort of like cream where with one copy it's diluted a little, and with two it's diluted a lot. Some breeds have more of them than others. Explains crop-outs, and tobianos that hide! AND why, even though Arabians have been bred for a little white but not a lot for MILLENNIA, sabino and to a lesser extent splashed white are both present in the breed. High levels of white suppression, which minimises the white pattern genetics in the breed, but doesn't remove them altogether.

A while back a thread was posted on here demonstrating how tobiano can hide, and pics were posted of genetically tested homozygous tobianos that were completely solid. No white to speak of. It can totally hide! Tobi doesn't cause face white at all, but it CAN affect it if another pattern gene puts it there.
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    07-12-2012, 05:58 PM
Green Broke
I hope chiillaa comes, I want to see what she has to say!
    07-12-2012, 06:30 PM
Tobiano won't put white on the face. So there has to be another paint gene at pay. I do see frame. Not seeing splash. Sabino...maybe. The edges are pretty jagged looking.
    07-12-2012, 06:49 PM
My first thought when I saw the pic (without reading) was 'Hmmm, look at the speckles in her [abnormally large] blaze...'

I guess speckles in a blaze is a tell-tale sign...? This is so weird, as tobaino is known to produce 4 white legs and isn't known to produce facial markings. There must be some other gene affecting it making it do this, whether it be frame or something else you would never guess.

I can't imagine her having to carry around a big drafty baby! Poor girl.
    07-12-2012, 08:04 PM
What breed is she?
    07-16-2012, 03:47 AM
Unknown, Chiilaa. The girl said she didn't know.

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