Breeding My Mare - Page 3

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Breeding My Mare

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  • Tips buying grade horse

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    03-23-2012, 09:46 PM
OP, not a waste of our time at all .

Perhaps let your little sister read this thread, maybe it will help her to learn more about the reasons behind breeding.

Cmaire, what they are talking about is that the registered half breeds (I'll only discuss the AQHA and Appendix horses as I don't know much about the Arab registry) is that both parents are still registered and you can still track their lineage. You know what their lines are and you can look back at their parents and grandparents to see what kind of conformation runs in those lines. Knowing the lineage is also useful for tracking genetic diseases. For example, many people won't buy a horse with Impressive on the papers even if the horse is N/N just because of the stigma attached to that name. People buy grade horses every single day and many of the N/H progeny in recent years have been left unregistered because they are N/H. That means when a person decides to breed their grade mare because she's cute or because she's sweet, they could be creating another horse with a completely avoidable affliction.

Now, I'm just using this as an example but if the OP's mare happened to be Impressive bred and was a non-symptomatic N/H, then there is a chance that the foal could be born N/H too. Both of them could theoretically live long and productive lives and remain asymptomatic....or they could both start showing symptoms and be dead in a month.

In the case of the OP's mare, they only know that she is a QH cross. Since they don't know what the other half of her lineage is (and likely her QH parent wasn't registered either so that lineage is completely unknown), there is a huge risk for some freaky conformational or genetic thing hiding in the genes just waiting to jump onto the genes of a foal.

Anyway, there are serious things to think about before a person should consider breeding and breeding a mare is nowhere close to a cheap endeavor.

First, you have to make sure that both the sire and dam have great conformation. A few minor flaws are acceptable, so long as the other evens it out, but there are some that are huge no-nos in breeding like calf knees, pigeon toes, extremely posty legs, super long backs, etc.

Also, the conformation of both sire and dam need to compliment each other. Generally speaking, if their conformation doesn't work well together, it wouldn't produce a desirable foal. That's why you breed cutting horse to cutting horse, jumping horse to jumping horse, dressage horse to dressage horse. I can't imagine the foal between a dressage horse and a cutting horse would be good for either of those disciplines. Plus, if it got just the wrong traits from each parent, you may end up with the fugliest foal on the planet.

Really, both parents should have proven themselves at some discipline first as well. Being sweet doesn't automatically qualify a horse as breeding quality, they need to be talented at something other than converting grass to poop.

Both parents need to be genetically tested to make sure that there are no genetic diseases like HERDA or HYPP or OLWS or any one of the other countless diseases hiding in there somewhere.

Each parent needs to have an amazing temperament because temperament can be genetic. If the sire is a beautiful horse with a rotten attitude, then you risk ending up with a foal with a rotten attitude who may not be so beautiful.

After the horse has been deemed worthy to reproduce, then you have to look at the costs to breed a horse.

1) There's the pre-breeding exam of the mare to make sure she's sound for breeding and having her tested to make sure she's not carrying any STD's (stud should be tested too)

2) There's the breeding fee itself

3) There's the numerous ultrasounds and vet visits during the pregnancy to make sure the mare isn't carrying twins and then to make sure everything is progressing nicely and the mare and fetus stay healthy.

4) There's the potential risk of the foaling, in which you could lose the mare, the foal, or both. If something goes wrong and you are able to save both, the vet bills from that would feed a small country for a week.

5) Then there's the immediately doubled feeding costs, farrier costs, vet costs, boarding costs, and training costs.

You also have to consider whether you honestly have the capability to train the foal. Let me tell you, training a foal is difficult. I'd been training older horses for about 10 years before I had my first foal experience and it was challenging as hell.

Then, there's the wait time. You're looking at 3 years before you can ride it, and that 3 years is a very long time when you're anxious.
Wallaby, NdAppy and xxdanioo like this.
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    03-23-2012, 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by Faceman    
Oh, I think most of us "understand". But registration policies don't change the fact that a QH crossed with a TB is a mixed breed cross. The fact that TB's are part of QH roots is not relevant. At this point in time they are different breeds with different muscle composition and different conformations. Arabs are part of QH roots as well, but not recognized as a registerable cross. Registration policies do not supercede genetics...never have, and never will. I don't oppose Appendix Quarterhorses - I like them in fact because of their versatility. But a cross is a cross nonetheless...
Nope, it really isn't a "mixed breed." I mean you can use this argument to try and justify breeding low-quality horses all you like, but it still won't make it a valid argument.
    03-23-2012, 10:06 PM
Smrobs, I know what they meant and how the registries work I was just pointing out it's still a crossbred horse and I agree with your post, but you did leave out the costs involved if the foal is ill at or after birth or has leg angular deformities, does the vet know how to deal with them, the means to transport a new born to the vet, trailering a newborn has it's own set of issues.
    03-23-2012, 10:20 PM
No body is trying to justify breeding low quality horses, but just because it hasn't been shown or rodeoed doesn't make it a low quality horse, not knowing bloodlines doesn't make it a low quality horse. I've seen some very nice pedigreed horses that were conformationally flawed when neither parent was. Breeding is a gamble each time.
    03-23-2012, 10:32 PM
Ah yes, now that is some proper justification of poor breeding practices.
Wallaby and SkyeDawn like this.
    03-23-2012, 10:34 PM
The only difference beween a good quality grade horse and a good quality registered horse is the papers.
You do get the ability to reference the ancestors of the registered horse.
Registration papers are only to tract the bloodlines of the horse.
There are many Qh's that are 50 -75 % TB and look it. You see alot of them in the english and racing bloodlines.
There are over 30 arabian stallions listed as the sires of foundation Appaloossa .
Until the books are closed to outside breeds the QH, Paint, and Apps may claim full registration but many are crossbreds. These breeds are still evolving.
I am not impressed that a horse is registered or by what bloodlines they carry. I am however impressed by the fact that they are correct stay sound are trainable and have good temperaments.
All these qualifications can be found in grade horses. Shalom
arrowsaway likes this.
    03-23-2012, 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by dbarabians    
There are many Qh's that are 50 -75 % TB and look it. You see alot of them in the english and racing bloodlines.
You're right. I own one, though he is 7/8 thoroughbred. And guess what? He could have his white papers, earning full rights. Advancement is a wonderful thing.

Back to the point, pointing out that registries allow outcrossing is a very poor argument for justifying breeding a grade mare of unknown parentage. Not comparable.
    03-23-2012, 10:44 PM
I'm not justifying anything, and no body on this forum can tell the OP she can't breed her horse, it's her horse and her call not anyone else. The only thing anyone can do is offer advice but you seem to want to bash and point fingers, and disagree with everyone who has a different point of view than you do. With that said we can agree to disagree.
arrowsaway likes this.
    03-23-2012, 11:13 PM
A grade horse can have a value equal to or better than most registered horses if trained properly.
There is a market for good quality horses that are well trained and no papers are necessary.
Unless you are showing in breed show or planining on breeding a certain breed registration papers are not necessary.
It is no crime to own or breed a grade horse. The process needs to be well planned and not taken lightly.
If one does not like grade horses do not buy or breed one. Its that simple. Shalom
cmarie likes this.
    03-24-2012, 12:42 AM
Guys, nobody is saying that grade horses are bad, heck, most the horses on my place are grade. We're saying that breeding grade horses that you know nothing about more than "well, one parent was a QH" is bad. Without knowing what the parents/grandparents looked like, it is a much greater gamble than breeding 2 well conformed horses where the lineage is known. Yes, not every single foal will turn out perfectly, but you aren't likely to get something that looks like a 5 legged donkey if you were to breed.... we'll say Zenyatta and Cigar.

It isn't unheard of for 2 completely fugly horses to create a foal that, by some miracle, isn't a mutant. But that foal, who is now a mature horse and of breeding age, still carries the possibility of passing those fugly genes on to their foal.

Seriously, why breed a horse if you know nothing of their genetics and take the risk of possibly creating something like this, that nobody will want,

When you could just go out and buy a horse of any color/size/breed/conformation/temperament/age right now for less than it costs for a tank of gas.
Faceman, Wallaby, NdAppy and 5 others like this.

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