Brindle or Roan? - Page 6 - The Horse Forum
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post #51 of 160 Old 04-18-2012, 08:41 PM
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Both mother and daughter are grey. What you are saying about "claybank" dun being darker because the daughter was darker is probably due to the greying process. It is really common for red based horses, such as a red dun, to go really really dark before they start going lighter again. It's also really common for grey to create the illusion of dun by leaving darker colour in the primitive marking areas.

For what it's worth - that picture of a "lobo dun" that you have attatched? It's a brown horse. That's the colour. It doesn't have any dun at all.
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post #52 of 160 Old 04-20-2012, 02:44 AM Thread Starter
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I don't mean to be rude.. But you don't know what you're talking about.. If you saw these horses in person like I have you'd see you're wrong... And if she's not lobo dun then how come she has BLACK black points, and a dorsal stripe... and she's a light dun colour under her tail
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post #53 of 160 Old 04-20-2012, 02:50 AM Thread Starter
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Also keep in mind these aren't normal domestic horses. They get a lot of primitive colours and markings that don't come in any domestic breed. And a lot of the colours and markings most people have never evenn heard of
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post #54 of 160 Old 04-20-2012, 03:21 AM
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I don't mean to be rude either, but I do happen to know what I am talking about.

Lobo dun is a term that is thrown around to refer to brown based dun in some areas. However, it's like me saying "taffy" instead of silver dapple. It's a regional term.

The horse attached does not have the dun gene at all. There is no dilution of the coat at all - the VERY FIRST thing a dun gene would do. Secondly, there are no dun factor markings. The photo gives a very clear view of the dorsal stripe you are talking about, and I can tell you right now, it is caused by countershading, and is often found in brown horses. A true dun has a clearly defined dorsal. There is none of the smuttiness the horse attached has. As for the lighter soft points (under the tail, on the flank, inside the elbow, around the muzzle, around the eye), these are caused by the brown colour. Brown horses are just like bay horses - they can and do have black points (legs, mane, tail etc). It is a form of the same gene that causes bay.

This is the brown horse I am talking about.



As for these horses, they are both grey. How you do not see that, I do not know. The difference in shade is because the horses are A - different ages, and B - different base coloured. The one on the right may well have been born dun - that is not going to stop her from going grey. Grey is a blanket - it covers the horse's original colour.

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post #55 of 160 Old 04-20-2012, 03:23 AM
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For reference:

This is a brown dun. Brown dun can often be mistaken for grulla. Some areas call brown dun lobo dun.


This is a red dun. Red dun is a chestnut horse which has a dun gene. It can also be called peach dun, apricot dun, or claybank dun.


I am sure that you can see the differences between these horses and the ones you have posted.
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post #56 of 160 Old 04-20-2012, 12:13 PM
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Chiilaa is right, the two horses in the one pics are most definitely grey. It is entirely possible that the horse was a dun before she greyed out, but that is irrevelent (sp?) now. Horses who were bay/dun/buckskin, etc, who grey out can keep their black points for a while. My friend has a dun horse that greyed out. He still has a prominent stripe with dark mane/tail/legs, so I think that is what you are looking at. Flashy boy too!
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post #57 of 160 Old 04-20-2012, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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okay okay... but I can tell you about the 'brown' horse... She is deffinitely dun... The grey horse (mother) in the 2nd pic foaled out a lobo dun while we had her, and he was the EXACT same as her... But when he lost his baby fur it was changing to grey.
And also the 'brown dun' you show is a regular domestic horse. That colour is really common in them... And there are different variations of colours too... To show that, here is the red dun colt we have, who is half brother to the claybank...
DSCF5284.jpg
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post #58 of 160 Old 04-20-2012, 08:32 PM
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^^^ That horse isn't a red dun. Red Dun's will NEVER, EVER, EVER have a black mane, tail and points.

And his forelock should be illegal! It's beautiful!

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him and not only will he not scold you, but he will make a fool of himself too."

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post #59 of 160 Old 04-20-2012, 11:00 PM
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That horse, as CLaPorte said, is not a red dun. It's a bay dun. Red dun is a dun gene on a chestnut horse, so will have no black on them at all. Bay dun is exactly that - bay horse with a dun gene.

Before you start spouting about how we know nothing because the examples we have used are domestic horses, maybe you should do some research. There are some breeds of horse that are known to have different expression of some colours. However, the Nokota breed isn't one of them. It's barely even a breed - it's a localised family tree of mustangs. Domestic horses and feral or wild horses have no genetic difference and display colour the same way, using the same genetics.
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Last edited by Chiilaa; 04-20-2012 at 11:02 PM.
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post #60 of 160 Old 04-21-2012, 05:33 AM Thread Starter
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I have done research. He is pure kiger... 100% mustang. And the difference is there hasn't been overbreeding in mustangs like in domestic horses, which has pretty much eliminated many old colours and markings in them. Those colours and markings, however, still do show up in mustangs. And what Nokotas are, are descendant's of Chief Sitting Bull's herd. A herd of government horses mixed with wild mustangs and whatever else they had.
And so what you're saying is both my mom (who has over 30 years horse training experience) and I don't know anything about the colours of 3 horses that we've spent the last 2-3 years looking after...
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