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brown or smoky black or?

This is a discussion on brown or smoky black or? within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        02-10-2013, 08:00 PM
      #21
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cat    
    Chiilaa - can a real black have light under the tail as well?
    Fading can be caused by sweat as well as sun, so I would not be surprised. He doesn't seem to be as pale in these areas as I would expect.
         
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        02-10-2013, 08:02 PM
      #22
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Celeste    
    So a genetics test that can determine the difference in bay and brown is available? Right? Years ago, we called them dark bay. Same horse.
    Yup. There is a test available from Pet DNA in Arizona, they are the only lab that tests for the brown allele. All the other labs don't test for bay as such, their test actually finds the recessive "a" allele, and they count how many of those the horse does or does not have. So it's not really a test for classic bay, so much as a test for the presence of an agouti allele that isn't recessive.
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        02-10-2013, 08:04 PM
      #23
    Cat
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Celeste    
    So a genetics test that can determine the difference in bay and brown is available? Right? Years ago, we called them dark bay. Same horse.
    As far as I know only one lab tests for brown and I have not been able to get any answers on if there are any peer reviews or verifications by outside sources that their test results are actually factual and accurate. Leaves me a bit sceptical of it especially since none of the main color testing labs like UC Davis has it and its really the only equine color test the company tests for.
         
        02-10-2013, 08:10 PM
      #24
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cat    
    As far as I know only one lab tests for brown and I have not been able to get any answers on if there are any peer reviews or verifications by outside sources that their test results are actually factual and accurate. Leaves me a bit sceptical of it especially since none of the main color testing labs like UC Davis has it and its really the only equine color test the company tests for.
    The guy in charge at Pet DNA has not released a paper, no. One thing to bear in mind is that if he does, the other labs can then just test for it too, so part of him not releasing it could be to maintain his business' niche in the market.
         
        02-10-2013, 08:18 PM
      #25
    Cat
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smrobs    
    Cat, I'd just call him beautiful .
    Trust me I do! This is just for curiosity's sake. He's a gelding so it will never have an impact on anything important.

    A couple more pics - this is how faded he was last spring when we adopted him.




    And here is a pic that shows the lighter eye color. With his tendency to fade and the lighter eye color which I've seen in other known smoky blacks it made me suspect smoky. But who knows if that really is the cause.

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        02-10-2013, 08:26 PM
      #26
    Cat
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
    The guy in charge at Pet DNA has not released a paper, no. One thing to bear in mind is that if he does, the other labs can then just test for it too, so part of him not releasing it could be to maintain his business' niche in the market.
    I've heard that excuse and while that may end up being the case, it is very hard for me to put faith and money into a scientific test that has no validation. I've been around the block in research and development a time or two and it just goes against everything I know for good, valid science.
         
        02-10-2013, 10:31 PM
      #27
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cat    
    I've heard that excuse and while that may end up being the case, it is very hard for me to put faith and money into a scientific test that has no validation. I've been around the block in research and development a time or two and it just goes against everything I know for good, valid science.
    I agree with this, however, I do see how that could be a compelling case. Regardless, a paper would be nice, until then, I am trying to collect as many pictures of tested horses through Pet DNA as I can, so if you do test, let me know. Working on a theory of my own, so need lots of tests, but without a poneh of my own, I am out of mane samples lol.
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        02-11-2013, 07:12 AM
      #28
    Cat
    Green Broke
    Hmmm...a theory of your own. That could be interesting!

    Not sure if I'm going to spend money on testing him since its not going to impact a breeding program or anything, but if I ever do have extra cash to spend and do it - I will let you know. Maybe I'll get my mare tested someday - I was told she was solid black but her muzzle is distinctly brown and I don't know what she looks like during the summer yet. Guess we will see.
    Chiilaa likes this.
         
        02-11-2013, 12:04 PM
      #29
    Green Broke
    In most of your pictures he looks pretty brown to me, but my grey is white, lol.
         
        02-11-2013, 03:49 PM
      #30
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
    I agree with this, however, I do see how that could be a compelling case. Regardless, a paper would be nice, until then, I am trying to collect as many pictures of tested horses through Pet DNA as I can, so if you do test, let me know. Working on a theory of my own, so need lots of tests, but without a poneh of my own, I am out of mane samples lol.
    If it's mane samples you need, I could pull a bunch from the bay & brown horses at my barn. I'd love to see which ones actually test positive for brown! Unfortunately I'd have to leave the fees up to you
         

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