Can a bay's face turn black? - Page 3

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Can a bay's face turn black?

This is a discussion on Can a bay's face turn black? within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        11-08-2012, 02:43 AM
    Hmmm... does it help if I tell you his mother was a chestnut? His father was a black and white tobiano.
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        11-08-2012, 10:07 AM
    It does mean that the agouti gene, whether brown or bay, came from the dam (since black horses don't carry any version of them). However, being chestnut, it wouldn't have been expressed on her.
    Wheatermay likes this.
        11-09-2012, 02:52 AM
    Ok, I have sinusitis and pharyngitis, so I didnt stay out and brush him out. I just went out, fed, cuddled, and went to the doctor... So apologize for the spit spots on him...

    Around his eyes it's running really dark. His belly seems to be lighter than it used to. I thought I'd show you that too.

    Ok, my other dumb question. How come his dam DIDNT express the bay or brown? I thought it was dominate? She just carries the gene? I'm a little foggy headed today, I'm sorry....
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        11-09-2012, 02:53 AM
    He was so bright and pretty today! :)
        11-09-2012, 03:09 AM
    Originally Posted by Wheatermay    
    Ok, my other dumb question. How come his dam DIDNT express the bay or brown? I thought it was dominate? She just carries the gene? I'm a little foggy headed today, I'm sorry....
    His dam was chestnut. Chestnuts do not express black in any way. Agouti (that causes bay and brown) only effects black hair. Therefore, chestnuts will not show whether or not they have Agouti.

    More elaboration as an edit:
    Bay and brown are black horses with the Agouti modifier. Agouti takes that black horse and says "hey, black, you're not allowed to be in this area anymore."
    Since chestnut horses are not black, Agouti has nothing to modify. If a chestnut horse has Agouti, all it says is "I'm hiding cause there's nothing for me to do."
    Wheatermay likes this.
        11-09-2012, 09:32 AM
    Ahh... ok... I get it! I think, lol... So what is this darkening on his face? Is it called anything in particular? And is he showing a little pangare trait? Isnt it lighter on the belly and around the eyes and nose?
        11-09-2012, 02:31 PM
    The lightening you're seeing is typical of brown horses- it often gets confused with pangare, but it's easy to tell the difference if you keep two things in mind.

    1- Brown tends to vary seasonally, often quite dramatically. Some brown horses look bay in the summer and almost black in winter. Pangare is present year-round.

    2- Pangare lightens the soft points to a white or greyish color, while brown is a warmer orangey-red color.

    Here's an example of what pangare looks like on a bay base:
        11-09-2012, 04:10 PM
    Green Broke
    Oh, I can give another example of Bubba :) Here he is this summer. You can see how much he changes when he goes into winter. During the summer you'd never think he was a brown, but it's really obvious when he's got his winter woolies. Brown can mimic bay really well.
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    Chiilaa likes this.
        11-10-2012, 02:06 AM
    So is Buck brown or bay? Lol
        11-10-2012, 07:00 AM
    Brown for sure

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