Color Conundrum

So many of us all know that Cinny has been considered black this whole time. Registered black, he fades to bay in the summer...but still we have said BLACK.

But something else has happened with his color that leaves me a bit stumped and wondering if he really is a very dark dark bay. As far as I know if you clip a black horse, they will be black where you clipped because they are black. Is this correct?

Well, Cinny had his first blanket clip and well, he's NOT black where he is clipped. He is a light brown color, almost dun-ish I'm talking dark palomino or buckskin even. So does this mean he actually is a bay and not a black because he clips this color?

Here is a picture of his fresh clip. Please please do not critique my clipping....my blade went dull in the middle of my clip so he is really really blotchy. I am going to clean it up, don't worry.

If he fades to bay in the summer he is probably brown.
Do you have more photos of him when he is not clipped?
You can't always go by registration papers either, as many people will call a brown horse black and the registry will not always correct this.

Oh and his sire is a black tobiano APHA, mare is chestunut AQHA

Here he is unclipped

This first one looks like a black and white picture, but it's not

I would say that he is brown, not true black. In the summer photo, there is some evident browness to his muzzle and an overall brown tone. Some can be very tricky to tell.
If the sire was indeed a true black, then there is still a chance that he inherited agouti from the mother, as red horse are known carriers of the gene, although they will not show it.

Actually a lot of black horses are not really dark black when clipped. I was looking to link to a good photo to show this. A quick search: Cross Country Dreamin': December 2009

And a Friesian: http://kingdomofhorses.com/wp-conten...pped-horse.jpg

I'm not sure without additional photos of your horse one way or the other, but just pointing out that clipping can reveal funky colors.

Hmm, I am friends with the lady I got him from and she owns his dam. She just told me that the dam tested AA (homozygous agouti??). She also said she was told the sire was Homozygous black(EE) and heterozygos tobiano .

If both of these are true, according to the color calculator an EE sire and AA dam would only produce a bay foal.

Bay or brown. Only one place tests for At, the rest only test for the presence or absence of agouti, but not which type (brown or bay). If that is true, then I do believe your boy is brown for sure!

What does he look like faded ?

I have a black mare that fades in the summer but she when she fades she looks more like a grulla than a bay.

A clip job does not reveal the "true" color of a horse. The pigment in a hair follicle is different at the root than the rest of the horse. A clip job NEVER gives an accurate description of a horses's color. Your horse is black.

Cinny is 110% black going off of the pictures. If you are really wondering, pull the hair and send it in for testing.