Color experts! Name those patterns! - The Horse Forum

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post #1 of 15 Old 04-12-2013, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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Color experts! Name those patterns!

Could you guys be so kind as to name the visible and potential patterns you see in these three horses and why? I will save the pics in case the ad goes down but on my phone right now.

Also, can someone explain why UC Davis states that tobianos can have blue eyes?

Thanks!

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post #2 of 15 Old 04-12-2013, 07:34 PM
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They can have blue eyes if other patterns are present that cause blue eyes.

When I can get one my computer I will post more. PITA posting from my phone.
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post #3 of 15 Old 04-12-2013, 07:36 PM
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Why do they state that tobianos can have blue eyes? Because they can. It's just not CAUSED by the tobiano gene at all, but by another white pattern that has to be present.

As for white patterns on those three. Each has tobiano, which is easy to spot - high white on the legs, white crossing the spine especially at the withers and hips.

Sabino is probably present in the mare, causing the rough lacy edges to her colour patches.

Frame looks like it is definitely in the filly and the stallion, and I would have definitely tested the mare before I bred her. The filly and stallion have the typical spreading above the eyes look to their face white, a trait I definitely associate with frame.
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post #4 of 15 Old 04-12-2013, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys. It's just so annoying how UC Davis makes it sound like tobiano alone can cause blue eyes. They should be a depedable source, not spreading more misinformation.
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post #5 of 15 Old 04-13-2013, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacabreMikolaj View Post
Thanks guys. It's just so annoying how UC Davis makes it sound like tobiano alone can cause blue eyes. They should be a depedable source, not spreading more misinformation.
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UC Davis makes it sound like tobiano can cause blue eyes because they DO believe tobiano can cause blue eyes. They also believe it can cause excessive face white, especially in the homozygous form.

From Samantha Brooks who was part of the tobiano research group
Quote:
Tobiano does not, in general cause additional face white. However, like any biological system, if you try to make hard and fast rules mother nature will defy you! Especially in homozygous tobianos, you can see additional face white, broad blazes, blue eyes etc. This is only due to the tobiano...It does not, in general, cause the broad bonnet faces you see in overo horses.
I asked a few more question for clarification and this is what I got back
Quote:
The key is that some homozygous TO horses will have more white and sometimes blue eyes, but not always (and I could more accurately say "not often".) TO is capable of producing the odd blue eye or two without the aid of overo or sabino genes.
From another researcher on the same/similar topic
Quote:
The truth is that white patterns are notoriously unpredictable. They do what they want to do, and we can't use the white on a horse to say for sure what patterns they must carry. We know what the tendency of these patterns are, and so we can make guesses, but I would never say that a horse was "definitely" more than tobiano just because it had a star on its face. White patterns are caused by the migration of melanocytes, and it is always possible that they will migrate to a small area outside the "norm."


I, however, do NOT believe tobiano causes blue eyes. The research is old, way back before we had confirmed splash genes, etc etc. They believe that it can because some of the horses in their research had excessive face white and blue eyes and were homozygous. But keep in mind that they couldn't rule out splash, and we know how minimal it can be now, and they didn't have ANY sabinos mapped ( as far as face white goes.)
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post #6 of 15 Old 04-13-2013, 02:21 PM
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I don't think bashing any institute that teaches is acceptable. You need to see when the information was published. IF it was published or if the research is current as in 2011 2012 or 2013.
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post #7 of 15 Old 04-13-2013, 02:24 PM
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No one is bashing the laboratory stevenson. If they haven't updated their information, it's no different than saying XYZ source is incorrect.
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post #8 of 15 Old 04-13-2013, 02:27 PM
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not spreading misinformation... hmmm
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post #9 of 15 Old 04-13-2013, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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How on earth is that bashing when it's true? They should know better than to make broad generalizations than that when they're the ones providing these tests. I didn't say "oh they SUCK." Seriously, get over yourself and stop trying to make an issue out of nothing.
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post #10 of 15 Old 04-13-2013, 03:19 PM
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Did anyone read my post LOL
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