Color/Genetics Questions! - The Horse Forum
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 581
• Horses: 1
Color/Genetics Questions!

Ok so after breeding my mare last spring I became really interested in Equine Color Genetics, though I don't know a whole lot YET lol I still find it very interesting! So my first question is how can people tell the status of a horse without testing? Can you tell anything about my mare? She is Dun, has had a Grullo foal (stallion was a haflinger) her mother was a Grullo and her father was a Buckskin Overo.
My other question is about Spice's (my mare) Dam. Her name is Ben Marks "Lady" (AQHA) and was a Grullo. She has had at least 10 foals... at least, and not one of them was sorrel/chestnut, or bay. She has had everything under the sun, Palminos, Duns, Grullos ect... Is this sheer luck? Or does color genetics play a roll here? Oh and Lady was bred to a variety of colors including bays and chestnuts/sorrels.
Kansas Spice Girl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 04:17 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,132
• Horses: 0
Some horses you know what certain statuses are by looking at them and their pedigree.

For the most part though, no there is no real sure way to tell whether a horse is homozygous or heterozygous for genes.

There are some you know for sure the status of one set of genes by looking at them (such as red based horses like chestnuts/sorrels are always ee, and cremelos are always ee CRCR).

Best advice on wanting to know what a horse will produce? Test it and know the genetic status of the horse it is being or will potentially be bred to.
Kansas Spice Girl likes this.
NdAppy is offline  
post #3 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 04:18 PM
Yearling
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gloomy Indianapolis
Posts: 791
• Horses: 1
Well I am no expert, lol but I do know some. She is a grulla, which means she is a black horse with the dun modifier. Are you sure her sire was a buckskin overo(tested) or is it possible he was a dun overo? That's the thing about genetics, even with a complete family history you can't always tell for sure without genetic testing. For her to have a grullo foal, it is likely she is homozygous for black because both a grulla and a buckskin have a base coat color of black, but nothing is for certain, she could still have managed to get a recessive red from one of the parents. As I am working this out in my mind,lol, a "zebra dun" (the ones that look like a buckskin) is actually a bay horse with dun. A bay is a black horse with the agouti modifier that changes the body color but not mane and tail or points(typically). She would have given a black gene no matter what, which is dominant over red and we know the Halffie had red. It IS possible however, that she does indeed have a red gene and it was just the luck of the draw.

If her mother has had a palomino foal, correct me if I am wrong people, but I believe that means she has to have a recessive red gene hiding behind the black and the dun modifier. If not, she would have given baby a black no matter what and black is dominant over recessive red. A palomino is a red horse with a dilute gene.

The short of it is, genetics play a HUGE part in color, and we are still learning new things about color genetics. I am like you, I find it fascinating, but it will be a long time before I understand it completely,lol. And don't EVEN get started on the LP(appy) genes, I get totally lost,lol.
Kansas Spice Girl likes this.
Jacksmama is offline  
post #4 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 581
• Horses: 1
Thanks NdAppy! I just though it was interesting that Lady never produced a "red" foal. She couldn't be homozygous for the Dun gene because she has had palominos correct? Also because she only had on Dun parent she couldn't be Homozygous Dun Anyways. Her sire was a palomino, and her mothers color was unknown, but im assuming dun considering Lady is a Grullo. Correct me if im wrong but since she is a Grullo she doesn't carry a cream gene right? So how come she never threw "red" babies even when bred to a "red" stallion?
Kansas Spice Girl is offline  
post #5 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 04:38 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,132
• Horses: 0
She did produce a red foal though. The palomino is red based. All horses are either red or black. Everything else is a modification of those two base coats.
NdAppy is offline  
post #6 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 581
• Horses: 1
[QUOTE=NdAppy;1302235]She did produce a red foal though. The palomino is red based. All horses are either red or black. Everything else is a modification of those two base coats.[/QUOT

Oh ok!!!and the foal must of gotten the cream from its sire... ok!!! Lol
Kansas Spice Girl is offline  
post #7 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 581
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksmama View Post
Well I am no expert, lol but I do know some. She is a grulla, which means she is a black horse with the dun modifier. Are you sure her sire was a buckskin overo(tested) or is it possible he was a dun overo? That's the thing about genetics, even with a complete family history you can't always tell for sure without genetic testing. For her to have a grullo foal, it is likely she is homozygous for black because both a grulla and a buckskin have a base coat color of black, but nothing is for certain, she could still have managed to get a recessive red from one of the parents. As I am working this out in my mind,lol, a "zebra dun" (the ones that look like a buckskin) is actually a bay horse with dun. A bay is a black horse with the agouti modifier that changes the body color but not mane and tail or points(typically). She would have given a black gene no matter what, which is dominant over red and we know the Halffie had red. It IS possible however, that she does indeed have a red gene and it was just the luck of the draw.

If her mother has had a palomino foal, correct me if I am wrong people, but I believe that means she has to have a recessive red gene hiding behind the black and the dun modifier. If not, she would have given baby a black no matter what and black is dominant over recessive red. A palomino is a red horse with a dilute gene.

The short of it is, genetics play a HUGE part in color, and we are still learning new things about color genetics. I am like you, I find it fascinating, but it will be a long time before I understand it completely,lol. And don't EVEN get started on the LP(appy) genes, I get totally lost,lol.

Spice is A Bay Dun/Zebra Dun (same thing) Her Dam... Lady was the Grulla, and Spices Sire... Scooter was FOR SURE a Buckskin Overo. If it means anything Ladys (the Grulla) Sire was a Palamino. And Scooters Sire was a Black/Overo
Kansas Spice Girl is offline  
post #8 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 04:48 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,132
• Horses: 0
What were Lady's sire and dam?
NdAppy is offline  
post #9 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 04:50 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,132
• Horses: 0
I'd be willing to bet that your mare is a brown dun and not a bay dun.
NdAppy is offline  
post #10 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
Weanling
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 581
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by NdAppy View Post
What were Lady's sire and dam?
Ladys Sire was a Palomino, and the Dam I don't know. Wouldnt she have to be a Dun or Grulla? Her Name was "Two D Adair" By "Two D Two" out of "Pony Adair"

Out of curiosity why do you think she is a brown dun?
Kansas Spice Girl is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
color genetics arguement, what color is she BennysLace Horse Colors and Genetics 12 06-17-2011 01:54 PM
Color genetics are not right with this... ognar Horse Colors and Genetics 5 01-08-2011 10:47 PM
Color Genetics... Plains Drifter Horse Talk 13 01-13-2010 07:47 PM
color genetics help please! Starryeyed Horse Breeds 18 05-01-2009 11:19 PM
color genetics questions AKPaintLover Horse Breeding 25 04-03-2009 04:33 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome