Color/Genetics Questions! - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 05:06 PM
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Her muzzle. Where is lightens is typical of browns, doesn't happen in bays.
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post #12 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NdAppy View Post
Her muzzle. Where is lightens is typical of browns, doesn't happen in bays.
Caitlins Camera 669.jpg
Oh... like this you mean?

Color Calculator
Ok... so on this foal color calcualator thing what would i put her color as? Im assuming it changes all my color probabilities correct? lol.... I have been putting her in as "Bay Dun". She is bred to a Buckskin
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post #13 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 05:37 PM
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Just keep putting her as a bay. Brown is just another form of agouti (bay, brown, wild bay).
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post #14 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Just keep putting her as a bay. Brown is just another form of agouti (bay, brown, wild bay).
Oh man this is so confusing! Glad you know your stuff lmao!
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post #15 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 06:39 PM
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What stallion is she bred to? Looking at that facial marking makes me think she has frame. If the stallion has frame too, then the foal has a 25% chance to be a lethal white. Were either parent tested before being bred?

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post #16 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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Spice may be a carrier, she is from Overo lines. We bred her to a Solid/Buckskin named Spirit and he ISNT for sure! With them both being solid... and Spirit having very few Overo Blood lines (Mostly Tobiano) chances were much lower anyway, but better safe than sorry right?
What about her mark sticks out to you?
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post #17 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 07:09 PM
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Solid horses can still carry frame, and "tobiano" lines can also carry frame, as it is pretty good at staying "hidden". I see it in her in the way her face marking is top heavy and spreading out instead of down. If it was caused by splash, I would expect it to be bottom heavy or lop sided, if it was sabino I would expect it to be even all the way down.

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post #18 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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Solid horses can still carry frame, and "tobiano" lines can also carry frame, as it is pretty good at staying "hidden". I see it in her in the way her face marking is top heavy and spreading out instead of down. If it was caused by splash, I would expect it to be bottom heavy or lop sided, if it was sabino I would expect it to be even all the way down.
Yes i know that Solids, and Tobianos can pass on the gene... it is just much less likely. Technically OveroxTobiano...OveroxSolid... SolidxSolid...TobianoxTobiano crosses cant result in a Lethal foal,Straight from APHA's mouth." Foals afflicted with it are primarily of overo lineage" meaning a "Tobiano" has to have primarily Overo lineage, to produce a Lethal white. An article released from APHA states the "Tobianos" said to pass on the gene are actually "toveros" So no a True Tobiano Paint will not carry it. I only said it was less likely in my case because Spirit has VERY LITTLE Overo lineage! Spice on the other hand I wouldnt doubt if she was a carrier considering her sires side consists of mostly Overos. Either way Spirit isnt a carrier lol so I guess thats a good thing :)
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post #19 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 08:00 PM
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Have you had him tested? Because that is the ONLY way to know.

The APHA is backwards and moronic in their colour registrations. "Tovero" is a lazy, catch-all term that pretty much means 'we don't know what pattern we have, so we are lumping them together'. "Overo" is anything but tobiano, which includes three different genes at least that could be causing the white. Add onto that - tobiano doesn't cause face white, so ANY tobiano with face white is technically carrying at least one other white pattern.

EVERY horse from ANY breed known to have frame should be tested before breeding. Frame can and does hide very well. There are tested horses that are completely solid that carry frame. Judging a horse's likelihood to have frame based on the colours listed on their registration, issued by a registry that has no clue about the colours, is not a sure way to tell.
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post #20 of 35 Old 01-10-2012, 08:13 PM
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The following horses all carry frame. The APHA would not have that listed though, because they don't recognise 'frame' as a colour, they only recognise overo.









I could spend all day posting horses that have no body white and are frame carriers. That's how common it is.

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