Color Predictions Please? - The Horse Forum

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post #1 of 26 Old 11-06-2012, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Color Predictions Please?

So, I'm planning on breeding miss Anne to a 16h champagne cremello stud around March. His dam was a paint, from what I understand, don't know about the sire. But Annie is a chestnut roan overo. I was just wondering, what do you guys think could come of this?
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post #2 of 26 Old 11-06-2012, 09:51 AM
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Before breeding, you need to test both sire and dam for Lethal White Overo Syndrome. Crossing 2 frame overos together results in a 25% chance of a dead foal. Do your research before breeding.

And has the stallion been tested to carry the champange gene? Id imagine that's the only way to know for sure considering the cremello is a double dilute.
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post #3 of 26 Old 11-06-2012, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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annie does not carry lethal, she's got chestnut tb on one side, she's homo for overo. I have had lots of time to think about this and definitely looked into LW before I chose a stud. I am so not into putting my mare, or her baby through something like that. He was tested, but our conversation only got as far as he's for sure champagne, so yes to the double dilute, which would be interesting considering annies roan.

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post #4 of 26 Old 11-06-2012, 10:29 AM
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Here is a color calculator to get an idea of what you could get.
Color Calculator
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post #5 of 26 Old 11-06-2012, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalisaParalyzer View Post
annie does not carry lethal, she's got chestnut tb on one side, she's homo for overo. I have had lots of time to think about this and definitely looked into LW before I chose a stud. I am so not into putting my mare, or her baby through something like that. He was tested, but our conversation only got as far as he's for sure champagne, so yes to the double dilute, which would be interesting considering annies roan.
If your mare was homozygous for overo she'd be lethal white and long past dead by now.
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post #6 of 26 Old 11-06-2012, 11:04 AM
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There is no such thing as a living homozygous overo. Those are lethal whites. They die within 24 hours.

If the sire is really cremello, the only possible outcome from a chestnut would be palomino. The champange thrown in there, idk.

Id like to see pictures of the potential parents.

Frame overo can HIDE on a solid colored horse as well. So even quarter horses carry it. Best to test.
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post #7 of 26 Old 11-06-2012, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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My mistake, genetics confuses me, that's why I asked, lol. There's a couple photos of anne in my albums (if it worked), but idk if they're good pics for this :/ do cremellos carry lethal by default? I'm really just trying to learn a little here, so if you could be patient with me, pretty please.
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post #8 of 26 Old 11-06-2012, 11:16 AM
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Cremellos do not carry lethal white be default. Cremellos have 2 copies of the cream gene. Lethal whites have 2 copies of the frame overo gene. Completely different genetics at play.

BUT, cremellos can carry one copy of the frame gene, and they can hide it, just like any other horse. If you mare carries a copy as well, and the resulting foal inherits those 2 copies, baby wont make it.
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post #9 of 26 Old 11-06-2012, 11:26 AM
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Has the stud been color tested? Double cream + champagne tends to look the same no matter what the underlying color is, so even though they call him cremello and he looks it, he could be perlino (bay + 2 cream) or smoky cream (black + 2 cream) with champagne and look the same.

Assuming he is cremello (chestnut + 2 cream) and champagne, it narrows down the possible base colors significantly. The foal will definitely be red based, and will definitely get 1 cream gene. He also has a 50% chance of getting the champagne gene, unless the stud is homozygous champagne, in which case the foal would definitely get champagne as well.

Red + cream = palomino
Red + cream + champagne = Ivory champagne (a pseudo-double dilute that can be difficult to distinguish from a cremello)

On top of that base color, the foal could also inherit any combination of roan and/or pinto patterns carried by either sire or dam.
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post #10 of 26 Old 11-06-2012, 11:32 AM
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As far as LWO, have the stud owner SHOW you a copy of the test results showing a negative for LWO. Too many people say a horse doesn't carry it because they don't "look" like they carry it, but it can very easily hide.

If the stud is negative for LWO, you don't need to get your mare tested right now, but you would probably want to know for future breedings unless you always breed only to studs who have been verified not to carry it by genetic testing.
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