concerned... please help - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 01-05-2013, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
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concerned... please help

I know nothing about this type of stuff but am concerned about my cousin breeding her horses...

Sorry if this is long...

Back story: She owns a 3yr old stud. Very well mannered and nothing like most studs. Most people assume he is gelded because he has such a good temperament. He is an unregistered mutt of sorts. She tracked some of his bloodlines but nothing impressive if I remember correct. He is solid white, blue eyes and one small brown patch on his side. My cousin shares property with someone who also owns horses. One mare in particular really likes the stud and broke into his paddock. The stud acted uninterested and everyone assumed he didn't get her. Well he did and a Lethal White foal was born. My cousin fell instantly in love only to have to put the filly down that night. She was heart broken. She didnt know about lethal white til that day and the breeding was completely an accident. The studs paddock has been secured so there will not be anymore accidents. Lesson learned there except...

Now she is set and determined to breed her stud again this time on purpose of course. So she traded her barrel horse (a gelding out of the QH Cash line) for a 4yr old paint who is started on barrels. She is a pretty mare but Im horrified she could carry the LW gene. I tried to mention this to my cousin but she insists that since she is tobiano (sp?) that she cant carry the gene. My cousin also doesnt take advice well once she is set and determined to do something, there is very little chance of changing her mind :(

Im hoping I can show her this thread and stop her before she gets her heart broke again.

Im attaching pictures of the mare at the end. What do you guys think? I also just learned about OWLS and lethal white foals but still do not completely understand it, which is why Im asking. Hopefully coming from more expeirenced people, she will listen. I know nothing about it so I can understand her not listening to me on the topic.

I know the only sure fire way to know is DNA but maybe we can encourage her to get the test done before she breeds.

My cousin has good intentions and would never ever intentionally hurt an animal. She just doesnt realize the seriousness of the issue. I love my cousin and dont want to see her heart broken again. I know she would feel awful and guilty if she had another LW. Shes a very caring and sweet person.

Thanks in advance!

Here are the few pics I have:




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post #2 of 44 Old 01-05-2013, 08:07 PM
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I would say that mare definitely is a frame carrier. The large blaze that goes off over the eye which appears to be blue. You can tell your cousin she would be breeding frame to frame again! You can also tell that tobiano patterns don't add face white only overo patterns do frame splash and sabino. You can tell your cousin her mare is tobiano with frame! Not only that but frame doesn't always show up on the horse's coat frame can be carried on a solid horse. And why is she breeding a stud that should be gelded thats bad enough. A mutt stud that hasn't done anything to prove itself and has no registration to pass to its progeny. Your cousin needs a lot of education in horses and breeding. She is contributing the continuance of driving the horse market down with poor breeding choices. I hope you show the forum responses to your cousin. Here's some reading materials. I mean theres not only frame being passed on but who knows what diseases that could possibly be inherited. Please tell her she has a 25% chance of having another lethal white foal I hope she makes the right decision. Also a good mannered stud is NOT a reason to breed! A responsible breeding program is to make and improvement on the breed.

Mountain Music: On the wings of an Angel

Lethal white syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Noey's Herd
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb119/catnoles/C4B3846B-0C4B-47DE-9615-9EF8D20471CB-1457-000000C51514425D-1_zpsf6857fd7-1_zps705476ca.jpg

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post #3 of 44 Old 01-05-2013, 08:09 PM
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Tobianos can carry the frame gene. Frame can be in any horse in conjunction with any pattern. The way the white is on her face makes me think she does carry frame as well. Tell your cousin it is a $25 test. You pull some mane hair and send it in...
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post #4 of 44 Old 01-05-2013, 08:13 PM
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I have to agree with Peppy Barrel Racing on this one... Also, she has a pretty head, and a good nicely set neck, but conformation wise I don't see anything worth passing on...

"It is the difficult horses that have the most to teach you" - Double Dan Horsemanship
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post #5 of 44 Old 01-05-2013, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks. She wants to breed him for his temperament. He is an amazing stud temperament wise, perfect ground manners, and you can put anyone on his back. Can't say much else though because I know nothing about conformation. The accident was out of a solid bay mare as well. And yes the current mare has one blue eye. My cousin is convinced she cant be a carrier cause she is tobiano and thats what the last owner of her mare told her. Sadly the lady who traded her horses knew she was going to breed her to a frame positive stud. I will definately be showing my cousin this thread. She said she only wants to breed once and keep the foal for herself, no serious breeding but still... My cousin is very sweet and caring, she just doesnt realize how serious this is. I understand wanting your heart horses baby but I just wish she would go about it a different way... *sigh*
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post #6 of 44 Old 01-05-2013, 08:21 PM
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Also have her read this thread - My horse has intact reproductive organs - should I breed?
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post #7 of 44 Old 01-05-2013, 08:21 PM
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Also with unknown history both the mare and him should really be tested for all genetic diseases (HYPP, HERDA, etc) before even thinking about breeding...
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post #8 of 44 Old 01-05-2013, 08:23 PM
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Could we maybe see a pic of the stud? I don't know much about LW, but I'm thinking it may be possible he's the carrier.

"It is the difficult horses that have the most to teach you" - Double Dan Horsemanship
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post #9 of 44 Old 01-05-2013, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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The mare was a on a whim. She got her sight unseen with no PPE. Sometimes my cousin confuses me with her choices... I love her to death but the horse thing is starting to bother me. I don't want to see her heartbroken or with a useless foal... its frustrating to explain to her when I don't know enough to properly educate her. Thanks everyone :)
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post #10 of 44 Old 01-05-2013, 08:25 PM
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Nokota both sire and dam HAVE to carry the OLWS gene in order to have an OLWS afflicted foal. Only in homozygous form will you get an lethal foal, which means the gene has to come from both the sire and the dam...
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