Cream + Pearl or Champagne? - The Horse Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 04-23-2012, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
Trained
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,286
• Horses: 1
Cream + Pearl or Champagne?

I bought my horse Garzo a few weeks ago, and have been reading up a little on the color genetics that result in a cremello horse (which he is supposed to be).

I was a little surprised when I noticed that he has some freckling/mottling on his skin, which doesn't seem to be consistent with being a double cream. It's most obvious in his dock area, but he also has it on his sheath, around his eyes and very faintly on his muzzle.

He also has one blue eye and one pale green eye, but everything I've read indicates that cremellos are "all" supposed to have blue eyes.

He definitely has a cream gene from his sire (Saphiro) but I'm unsure of his dam and am thinking he got either pearl or champagne from her. I bought him from the breeder, so I'm waiting to hear back from him if he still has some pictures of her that he wouldn't mind sending me. Her name is King Pearly, which would imply the pearl gene, but it would also imply that she's male, so who knows

Here are some pictures of the freckled areas- what do you think? Double cream? Cream w/ pearl? Cream w/ champagne? Something else?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Right Eye.jpg (61.1 KB, 221 views)
File Type: jpg Left Eye.jpg (52.2 KB, 216 views)
File Type: jpg dock.jpg (50.6 KB, 220 views)
File Type: jpg muzzle.jpg (57.0 KB, 211 views)
verona1016 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 04-23-2012, 06:13 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 5,582
• Horses: 2
Possibly. Do you have any pictures or pedigree of her dam?

I'm half asleep honestly, so I will come back later when I have some kind of thought process other than directing you to UC Davis (Horse Tests) as they have genetic tests for both Pearl and Champagne. Each is $25.
Poseidon is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 04-23-2012, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
Trained
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,286
• Horses: 1
Here is the dam's pedigree: King Pearly Quarter Horse

I'm working on getting photos, but the breeder can be a little slow with e-mail. If he does have photos of her, it might take him a week or two to get them scanned and e-mailed to me.
verona1016 is offline  
post #4 of 14 Old 04-23-2012, 06:42 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 5,582
• Horses: 2
My thoughts with it currently: Pearl exists in Andalusians, but I'm assuming it's quite uncommon, if not rare and I don't know enough about Andalusians to know what bloodlines it exists in. So there is the possibility he could have received the pearl gene from his sire.

However, his dam is a palomino, or so allbreed says. Gold champagnes are commonly mistaken for palomino, but she may also be a palomino pearl, although I only know that pearl is associated with the Barlink Macho Man line, which I don't se e in her pedigree, unless I missed it.
Poseidon is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 04-23-2012, 07:20 PM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: East Coast, USA
Posts: 489
• Horses: 0
The UC Davis site says that if a horse has 2 copies of the pearl gene that they eyes will be a light brown color but if one copy of the pearl gene, eyes will be a blue/green color. Not sure that they mean one eye blue and the other green but that's what it says. Also says that with one copy of the pearl gene the horse will have a very diluted color similar to the double dilutes such as a cremello....which leads me to think he probably has at least one pearl gene.

I think I remember reading somewhere that Saphiro had sired another foal that was tested and positive for carrying the pearl gene so I bet he carries it.

Dove Chocolate Discoveries Independent Chocolatier www.mydcdsite.com/susannaashdown
For All the people who live in the USA...online ordering is now available!!!! Click above and visit my site and then click "Shop Online."
WyndellaRose is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 04-23-2012, 07:37 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 5,582
• Horses: 2
Pearl is strange. One copy of the gene alone will not change the color of a black, bay, or chestnut horse. However, two copies will produce colors similar to a single cream dilute or a champagne color (kind of the same way cream does not change black, but two cream genes will change it entirely). Furthermore, pearl will suddenly become evident if a horse carries pearl and cream and be double diluted. For instance, a buckskin pearl will appear to be an almost perlino color.

ETA: Wyndella, by "blue/green eyes", they mean just that: eyes that are a bluish-green color. Not one green, one blue.
Poseidon is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 04-23-2012, 07:49 PM
Weanling
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 409
• Horses: 0
I am not an expert, but I don't think champagne. They eyes don't look right to me. Here is a close up of a yearling amber champagne I used to have.

yadlim is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 04-23-2012, 07:50 PM
Trained
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 5,582
• Horses: 2
Champagnes usually have amber eyes, not green/blue.
Poseidon is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 04-23-2012, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
Trained
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,286
• Horses: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by WyndellaRose View Post
I think I remember reading somewhere that Saphiro had sired another foal that was tested and positive for carrying the pearl gene so I bet he carries it.
It's possible that Saphiro carries it, but from a quick Google search, I think it's unlikely. The only cream-pearl offspring of his I could find a reference to seemed to have inherited the pearl from his dam (who foaled another cream-pearl from a different double cream sire) He seems to be a pretty prolific sire, so I'd think more of his foals would show it (assuming pearl has a 50/50 chance of being passed on)

I didn't realize the pearl gene was quite so rare... Does anyone know of any QH lines that are known to carry pearl besides Barlink?

Is champagne more common? Anyone know what it does to eye color when mixed with cream? He certainly doesn't have the amber eyes of a non-cream champagne.
verona1016 is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 04-23-2012, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
Trained
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,286
• Horses: 1
This page about cream-champagne mixture indicates that the combination can have green eyes, though they often remain blue.

It also says that can develop light freckles as they age. Garzo isn't all that old (8 next month) but it doesn't say when the freckling would start.

If it weren't for the green eye, I'd think maybe is actually a double cream that is developing some freckling.

ETA: Here's the link... I guess it would help if I included it http://www.thehorseguide.com/HorseCo...yChampagne.htm
verona1016 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
keeping a cream horse cream momo3boys Horse Grooming 4 10-15-2010 06:14 PM
Meet Mini Pearl *Warning:Cute* omgpink Horse Pictures 9 05-30-2010 02:37 PM
Should I test him for champagne? Or not? CloudsMystique Horse Breeding 10 05-05-2010 04:17 PM
Maximus & Pearl {PIC OVERLOAD} Fun In The Sun. AztecBaby Horse Pictures 14 12-05-2009 12:11 PM
Pearl Piccies AztecBaby Horse Pictures 12 10-30-2009 09:26 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome