Dilute Draft Stallions in UK? - Page 2
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics > Horse Colors and Genetics

Dilute Draft Stallions in UK?

This is a discussion on Dilute Draft Stallions in UK? within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

    Like Tree80Likes

     
    LinkBack Thread Tools
        02-01-2013, 12:57 PM
      #11
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by verona1016    
    The American Cream Draft was the first breed that popped to mind for me. Looks like they're actually champagne, not cream, though; not sure if that makes a difference to you You're probably not likely to find one in your area, but could probably do shipped semen.
    This was a breed I was really interested in too... But I don't know the breed well, I would have to read into them a bit :)
         
    Sponsored Links
    Advertisement
     
        02-01-2013, 01:32 PM
      #12
    Green Broke
    " The American Quarter Horse became an official breed in 1940 when the American Quarter Horse Association (AQHA) was founded. It is the first breed of horse native to the United States, having formed over generations dating back to the 1600s in Colonial America. At first bred primarily for racing over short distances, the American Quarter Horse found a new role in the 1800s when it rose to prominence as the horse of choice for the burgeoning cattle industry in America."

    AQHA was founded in the 40's but they were bred for a LONG time before that. I guess doteing over registration papers was probably less important then founding and settling the country ;). The thing that I find admirable about AQHA is that they were bred with purpose in mind.. an fast, level headed, intelligent, strong and agile horse. I feel like they evolved into a breed of their own instead of breeding the heck out of some cute horses.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Freyannia likes this.
         
        02-01-2013, 02:20 PM
      #13
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SlideStop    
    " The American Quarter Horse became an official breed in 1940 when the American Quarter Horse Association (AQHA) was founded. It is the first breed of horse native to the United States, having formed over generations dating back to the 1600s in Colonial America. At first bred primarily for racing over short distances, the American Quarter Horse found a new role in the 1800s when it rose to prominence as the horse of choice for the burgeoning cattle industry in America."

    AQHA was founded in the 40's but they were bred for a LONG time before that. I guess doteing over registration papers was probably less important then founding and settling the country ;). The thing that I find admirable about AQHA is that they were bred with purpose in mind.. an fast, level headed, intelligent, strong and agile horse. I feel like they evolved into a breed of their own instead of breeding the heck out of some cute horses.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    My baby brain is in full force tonight! Lol

    I want to do this with the UK Sugarbush's. My goal is an all round horse, intelligent, strong and agile, gentle and calm but with get up and go if it is asked for. Personally I want to do some showing along the way but my plan is to build up a trekking centre that specialises in heavier horses and the RDA. These horses are perfect for that purpose. Very intelligent but calm :)

    They also cater to the budget owner too, hardy, good feet, good doers etc etc... Lots of careful and selective breeding but my end goal is SOOO worth it!
         
        02-01-2013, 02:33 PM
      #14
    Green Broke
    There are hundreds of heavy cobs on the market at the moment, the vast majority end up in the meat wagon.

    The RDA don't tend to want many horses over 15hh as it makes getting people on and off them very difficult (I've worked with both RDA and PARA dressage)

    They are Mutts, not some pedigree horses. You are breeding UK stock to WB's or Drafts just because they fit a description doess not make them a purebred. I had a purebred connemara who was often mistaken for a newforest pony, does not make him a newforest.

    Finaly to officialy become a breed the registry that holds the certifcation rights must be registered with DAD-IS (The UN registry).

    Sugarbush is not a recognised breed.
         
        02-01-2013, 03:13 PM
      #15
    Green Broke
    There are many all round horses, which is why I don't see much purpose in breeding them. Are AQHA types pretty versatile? Yes, you can find them in any discipline. Where they really excel is in western events/riding because they were BRED TO BE sturdy, cow smart, high endurance work horses. Not a bunch of random things splashed together and called an "all rounder".
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Freyannia likes this.
         
        02-01-2013, 03:33 PM
      #16
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by faye    
    There are hundreds of heavy cobs on the market at the moment, the vast majority end up in the meat wagon.

    The RDA don't tend to want many horses over 15hh as it makes getting people on and off them very difficult (I've worked with both RDA and PARA dressage)

    They are Mutts, not some pedigree horses. You are breeding UK stock to WB's or Drafts just because they fit a description doess not make them a purebred. I had a purebred connemara who was often mistaken for a newforest pony, does not make him a newforest.

    Finaly to officialy become a breed the registry that holds the certifcation rights must be registered with DAD-IS (The UN registry).

    Sugarbush is not a recognised breed.
    Ok, firstly there is no regulation I can find that says breeds MUST be registered with the DAD -IS. Infact there are breeds which arnt listed like the Brabent. Each country has the choice to use the system, they are not required to.

    Secondly, as there are only 12 of the original horses left the breed is considered an extinct breed until 10 separate bloodlines are created from the foundation registered horses and the original horses. Foundation horses can't be counted so it needs to be 5th generation youngstock thatbare counted for seperate bloodlines. Once we get to that point the breed will move from "extinct" status to "endangered" status. As a breed classified as extinct it wouldn't show on the DAD-IS system.

    Thirdly "mutt" refers to a mongrel dog. My horses are neither dogs nor mongrels as they are selectively bred and have recorded pedigrees. As I am at the beginning stages of re establishment sure, my horses will start off as cross breeds but they won't stay that way. How do you think we have so many different breeds in the first place?

    Fourthly I asked if anyone knew of a dilute draft stallion. I did not ask if people would like to tell me that the breed I and several others are trying to re establish is a real breed. We know it is a breed and we are dedicated to bringing it back.
    Remali likes this.
         
        02-01-2013, 04:51 PM
      #17
    Super Moderator
    Maybe 'mutt' is the wrong word to use since most UK show horses/ponies are types and not breeds - excepting the purebred natives etc of course and a lot of them had arabian blood bred into them over the years.
    Faye is right though as anything you breed will not be seen in the UK as any different to the thousands of cobs, heavy riding horses already out there and sadly a lot are being sold for meat - loads of gypsy cob types being abandoned.
    The horse in my avatar is a cross between what was desbribed to me as a small clydesdale and an arab - larger pic below. She is almost like a mini clyde so I'm thinking if you put a draft cross to a clyde you are more likely to get something that looks like clyde and not what you are hoping for.
    Attached Images
    File Type: jpg Honey.jpg (63.0 KB, 140 views)
         
        02-01-2013, 05:18 PM
      #18
    Foal
    I am aware that up until the breed is more established people are not likely to recognise it. This doesn't bother me. If the thought that no one would recognise them stopped breeders from breeding their chosen breed regardless of what country they were in then we wouldn't have the varied and diverse breeds that we do have all over the world.

    Eventually this breed will get the recognition that I think they deserve. I know that for every person who sees a Sugarbush draft and wants one there is at least one that thinks its a "Mutt", simply because they don't know about the breed, or they don't like draft types or some other reason. But that's their problem... Not mine

    The stallion below is the only remaining pure bred stallion from the original lines. Once my horses are breeding true we will be importing a stallion from his bloodlines to further improve the breed in the UK :)
    Attached Images
    File Type: jpg image.jpg (93.0 KB, 139 views)
    lovelyStory likes this.
         
        02-01-2013, 05:21 PM
      #19
    Started
    I guess I really don't understand the Subarbush thing, whether in the US or UK. However, no f1 breeding, will make a purebred anything. It does indeed, take tons of horses, generations of breeding and more time and money than most humans have, to make a breed which is breeding true. Along the way, hundreds will probably have to be culled.

    You can find many Gypsy Cobs in the UK, which are of dilute colouring. Those from reliable breeders, will have a known background and will have been DNA'd. I know of a few. However, I don't see how breeding to one, will make a foundation or otherwise, Sugarbush breed. I guess in my mind, whether correctly or not, I had the idea that Sugarbush horses were Appy coloured Percherons. Come to think of it, there are some very good Appy coloured Gypsies in the UK.

    Lizzie
         
        02-01-2013, 05:35 PM
      #20
    Super Moderator
    I'd say if you crossed an appy to a percheron, suffolk punch, Boulonnaise or similar you would get a horse that looked just like this - but if you bred two and then crossbred them with each other you could get something much lighter or much heavier - eg more like the foundation draft breed
    It would be several lifetimes to get it right.
    Clava likes this.
         

    Thread Tools

    Similar Threads
    Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
    [cream] dilute Pure Spanish/Iberian Horses? TexanFreedom Horse Colors and Genetics 0 06-12-2012 03:25 PM
    Any Spotted Draft or Pinto Draft Owners? Let's see em! randomrider92 Draft Horses 28 04-16-2012 05:06 PM
    Looking for dilute genetics on seal brown horses 4theloveofhorses Horse Colors and Genetics 21 03-23-2011 08:33 PM
    Dilute thoroughbred breeders - Please help me! Pauline Dress Horse Breeding 35 07-07-2009 05:55 PM
    contest for all draft and draft cross owners!!!!! english_rider144 Draft Horses 1 02-03-2009 05:07 PM



    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:34 AM.


    Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0