The Foggy World of Bay...
 
 

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The Foggy World of Bay...

This is a discussion on The Foggy World of Bay... within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Bay quarter horses with white socks and blaze
  • Brown horse with 4 white socks

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    06-29-2012, 12:09 PM
  #1
Green Broke
The Foggy World of Bay...

Can anyone shed some light on bay variations? I know that

Black base + Agouti = bay

And until a short time ago I thought all the variations were just that, the same genetics, slightly different appearance. I would love it if someone could clarify

A)wild bay
B)brown
C)silver bay

What are the differences from "standard" bay? What is the difference between a brown and a bay? To me a basic bay is colored like my mare, Lady:



But then I have Pickles, my two year old appy x aqha. Her sire looks like a liver chestnut with a blaze, blanket and 4 white socks, her dam is a bay quarter horse. She is starting to roan out, but her legs are not solid black, like Lady's, they are faded?

     
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    06-29-2012, 05:56 PM
  #2
Trained
I think both are bay. Looks like your Appy guy could carry a grey gene and is roaning out?

Wild bays are a bay with a silver dominate gene. The coat usually doesn't get affected, but the mane and tail will fade to a "silver" colour.
Brown I find to be kind of an ambigious term. They say bay's don't have the lighter colour around their muzzles/flanks, but that's not true.

Bays are all over the place, though.
These are all bays, but all different:







     
    06-29-2012, 06:46 PM
  #3
Green Broke
Quote:
Appy guy could carry a grey gene and is roaning out?
Roan, yes, grey, no. Sire was appy and dam solid bay, so I'm guessing a slow occuring varnish roan? She was solid bay last year.

Thanks for the reply
     
    06-29-2012, 06:49 PM
  #4
Trained
I didn't make much sense, anyway. I should have said greying out. Or is expressing a roan gene.
Or Rabicano, could be. I'm not a great colour expert. I'll be on here next year, wondering if my stallion threw me greys or bays. LOL

He's got super hocks, by the way! He'd make a great reiner.
     
    06-29-2012, 07:22 PM
  #5
Green Broke
Quote:
He's got super hocks, by the way! He'd make a great reiner.
I beleive she is halter and pleasure bred. I bought her because her disposition was amazing. Hoping to make a mountain horse out of her one day. You should see her change direction on a lunge line, sits right down and whips around, just effortless. The first mare, Lady, has my heart too though, egyptian arab and just fearless. Not an easy ride, but way to much fun.
     
    06-29-2012, 07:25 PM
  #6
Trained
Oops, I kept calling she a he... LOL

I remember seeing Lady for sale. I almost went to look at her, but she didn't quite fit in with my CMK/Polish Arabians. Probably just as well as I have too many already! LOL
They are always a fun ride, though! My five year old gelding is going great, he'll be one of those old kid horses. My eight year old still spooks randomly sometimes, and he's my favourite to ride.
     
    06-29-2012, 09:16 PM
  #7
Weanling
Some of the more Appy knowledgeable people may chime in here (I'm more of a paint person lol) but I believe the more correct term for your guy is "coloring out". Horses can't really roan out from what I recall, they are roan from birth usually. Your appaloosa is probably just getting his varnish.
     
    06-29-2012, 09:19 PM
  #8
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridgertrot    
Some of the more Appy knowledgeable people may chime in here (I'm more of a paint person lol) but I believe the more correct term for your guy is "coloring out". Horses can't really roan out from what I recall, they are roan from birth usually. Your appaloosa is probably just getting his varnish.
I don't know. I bought a black filly that turned blue roan slowly over the years. I have a chestnut mare that turns a little more roan (rabicano actually, so she may not apply here) every year - her flanks are almost all white now.
     
    06-29-2012, 09:22 PM
  #9
Green Broke
Any one can feel free to explain rabaciano while your at it too
     
    06-29-2012, 09:28 PM
  #10
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by WSArabians    
I think both are bay. Looks like your Appy guy could carry a grey gene and is roaning out?

Grey does not cause a horse to "roan out". You have three different things confused here - grey causes a horse to get progressively white all over, roan causes a horse's coat to be a blend of white and coloured hairs, and varnish causes a horse to get progressively whiter but leaving colour on the "hard" points of the body - where the bone is really. The varnish getting more progressive is called "colouring out".

Wild bays are a bay with a silver dominate gene. The coat usually doesn't get affected, but the mane and tail will fade to a "silver" colour.

Wild bay is not bay with silver. That is a silver bay. Wild bay is a separate mutation of the agouti gene that causes the black to be restricted even further than on normal bay. Wild bays have been tested for silver in the past, and do not carry it.

Brown I find to be kind of an ambigious term. They say bay's don't have the lighter colour around their muzzles/flanks, but that's not true.
There is nothing ambiguous about brown. It IS a colour, it HAS been mapped genetically, it DOES exist. It is a mutation of the agouti gene that restricts black in a different way to bay and wild bay.
     

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