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Future Color???

11K views 46 replies 18 participants last post by  Yogiwick 
#1 ·
This is my friends filly. I can't quite grasp the color she will mature to be. She has been growing black spots on her body as shown. Her dad was jet black, mom is a black buckskin. Any thoughts?? thanks
 

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#2 ·
I'm not quite sure what you mean by black buckskin? Do you mean she looks black but color tested buckskin or? I'm really curious, do you have any pictures showing the dam's coloring? Just based on the picture of the foal though I'd say she looks buckskin or smokey brown to me.

Edit to add I just realized maybe your friend meant black buckskin as in she's a black horse with cream, like a buckskin is bay with cream. If that is the case then the name for that is smokey black.
 
#3 ·
The foal looks brown-based buckskin to me. I'm also a little confused by the term black buckskin, though. If both parents are black (with or without a cream gene present) then there wouldn't have been an agouti gene to pass on to the foal.
 
#4 ·
Looks like a smokey black. The foal coat is the brownish fuzz, where the new coat is coming in it is black.

Horses can look really weird when they shed their foal coats. I saw a TB one time and he had black stripping down his legs- one side of the leg had shed, and the other side hadn't. He was a bay.
 
#7 ·
The problem with smoky brown is that if both parents are indeed black or smoky black, smoky brown is not possible.

OP, more pictures would be really helpful. Pictures of both the sire and dam would be best. And if possible, a picture of the foal in question fairly soon after birth, but dry, would be pretty handy too.
 
#8 ·
Sire must be super dark brown (like the stallion Gatsby for example), because the baby is definitely smokey brown IMO. Dam would then be smokey black, which is what they seem to be trying to describe with the term "black buckskin". Could be the other way around, too, of course. Pictures of sire and dam would help determine their colors, but regardless I'm quite confident that the foal is smokey brown.
 
#13 ·
If both parents are indeed black smokey brown is impossible foal could only be black or smokey black.
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#14 ·
OP can you define black buckskin for us?

As mentioned pictures of foal and parents.

If she was a buckskin at birth she is a buckskin now. Shades may change but the colors/genetics don't. Sometimes there are little details that show what color she truly is which is why we want pictures :)
 
#15 ·
I'm still leaning toward the mare being a smokey brown rather than black based on what I'm hearing. I definitely see some sort of cream on that foal. I don't believe sooty usually shows that early on foals, I may be wrong but I'm fairly confident that it doesn't show until they get a bit older.

And to the above poster, just because a horse 'looks' one color doesn't necessarily mean it is, genetics can do some crazy things! I've seen horses that from looking at them looked BLACK but they tested to be sorrel, and even one that turned out being palomino! That being said unless the foal was color tested to be buckskin there is no way to prove that just because she LOOKED buckskin at birth that she was actually buckskin.

With that being said I'm still leaning toward both the mare and foal being smokey brown, or 'brownskin' as it is also called. I'm a little rusty on color and genetics, so I can't recall if a brown can have a bay. They're both agouti, just different forms of it. According to a few sites I poked around they can, in which case the foal COULD be buckskin (I'm still leaning toward smokey brown though) but again I'm not sure if the sites are even correct.
 
#18 ·
If the sire is purebred Friesian then it's extremely likely that he's homozygous black, no cream, so any agouti or cream must have come from the dam.

I was wondering about grulla (with cream) as well, since that's the only color I can think of where the horse would appear to have a gray colored coat with dark points (aside from the actual gray gene) I don't think the foal got the dun gene, though, and that doesn't explain where the agouti could have come from.
 
#20 ·
Looking at that photo, if the rear end behind the foal in question is the dam, I am feeling like she is smoky black. For those asking for clarification, "black buckskin" is another term for smoky black, or a black horse with a single cream gene.

Foal is definitely showing some sort of cream IMO. If that is the dam, she doesn't look smoky brown to me, she is just too dark all over. However, and here comes the disclaimer, that is a really, really, really, really bad photo to judge the mare's colour from - so I am in no way saying that I am 100% certain on that one.
 
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#22 ·
Actually no I don't agree. Mostly likely if mom is smokey black then baby can only be black or smokey black since there would be no agouti present.
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#25 ·
Could it be a sooty gene from the dam insted of a smokey gene?

I am positive both those horses are smokey brown not sooty the first ones offspring back up that he is most likely brown as well.
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#27 ·
The mare CAN'T be just seal brown because the foal HAS to get the cream from somewhere, and it clearly has it. Given the sire is a friesian I'm positive he has no cream.

That means the mare would HAVE to be smokey black or smokey brown. I've never seen sooty show up on a foal that young anyway, I'm not even sure it can show up at that young of an age.

I'm fairly confident that foal and mare are both smokey brown, even if the mare may be an especially dark one.
 
#29 ·
first, whats the difference between seal brown and brown? I thought seal bay was just a term to describe a brown?

second, what the heck is a smokey brown, and how would it be different from "brownskin"? are we referring to a brown with a cream gene in both cases?

I don't think any accurate conclusion can be reached without further photos of the dam.
 
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