Genetic knowitalls take notice! Lol - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 47 Old 01-31-2013, 12:58 PM
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Only if they are homozygous. You could breed two heterozygous together and get a chestnut, since they would be Ee, and therefore the outcomes would be EE, Ee, or ee.
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post #12 of 47 Old 01-31-2013, 12:58 PM
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Chilla explained it Very well - I like to look at it like 'switches' turned off and on on a horse. Each horse has a set of all the possible switches (2 possible for each color gene) - some are switched on, some off. Each switch changes the appearance of a horse, sometimes if they have both turned on it'll look different from if they have one turned on. Like the cream dilute - on a red base 1 cream gene makes palomino, 2 cream makes cremello. Get where I'm going with this?

So you're mare who can only make black foals - clearly has BOTH Black switches turned on - if one was off there would be a 50/50 chance of her foal getting her black gene (of course what daddy carries can also influence the %)
What's nice about True black horses is you know they aren't hiding anything - there is no dilute gene that isn't visible on a black horse (except sometimes black with 1 cream can be tough to distinguish)
One a red base horse dilutes like agouti(bay) and silver may not be apparent without DNA tests and may show up in a foal.

Now the daddy of your mix is probably the one throwing you some curve balls.
'dun' is just a dilute gene, it could appear on any color. So if the dun daddy a bay dun? Black dun (Grulla)? chestnut dun? buckskin dun? What base does he have?
For the sake of this post I'm going to "ASSume" he's a bay dun - because that's what most people refer to as just a plain 'dun'.
This would mean he carries at least 1 black gene, at least 1 agouti (bay) dilute gene, and (because you said he's guaranteed to throw dun foals) he must have 2 Dun dilute genes.
So daddy could look something like
Ee (black 1 switch on, 1 switch off)
Aa (bay 1 switch on, 1 switch off)
DD (dun both switches on)
He could have both switches on for black or bay - but we'll pretend like he doesn't because we don't know for sure.
So daddy has a 50/50 chance of carrying on his E (black gene) but lucky mommy has 2 so foal is definitely going to definitely get the E gene from mom - so baby is 50/50 Ee or EE (one on, one off or both on 50/50)
The agouti (bay gene) only effects black based horses - the foal is definitely is black based so he has 50/50 to get 1 agouti from daddy, but no chance of getting any from mom. So he's 50/50 whether he'll be Aa or aa (1 switch on, 1 switch off or both off 50/50). Luckily it only takes 1 A to effect a black based horse. So foal is 50/50 whether or not he gets the bay gene.

While Daddy is sure to pass on one of his Dun genes, mommy has none - again luckily it only takes one to get dilute the color.

So baby would be either Grulla or Bay Dun :)

Sorry if that went crazy - I LOVE genetics!
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post #13 of 47 Old 01-31-2013, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Okay thank you, and if you wanted a specific colour, like a red roan, what would you have to do to get that colour? As it is not a base colour.
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post #14 of 47 Old 01-31-2013, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
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Also, about my filly, she came from a red dun mare and a black stud (I think he was black not sure) so she came out black. That means that the stud had Ee and the mare had ee, making her black but she could produce a red base foal... am I correct?
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post #15 of 47 Old 01-31-2013, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Breezy2011 View Post
Okay thank you, and if you wanted a specific colour, like a red roan, what would you have to do to get that colour? As it is not a base colour.
Red and black are the two bases- everything else is dilutes, red roan (I ASSume you mean bay roan?) is a Black base, diluted with both Agouti (bay) and Roan dilutes.
If you mean chestnut roan it's a red base with roan dilution.
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post #16 of 47 Old 01-31-2013, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Breezy2011 View Post
Also, about my filly, she came from a red dun mare and a black stud (I think he was black not sure) so she came out black. That means that the stud had Ee and the mare had ee, making her black but she could produce a red base foal... am I correct?
Do you mean Chestnut dun or Bay dun?

If chestnut dun she has ee (both off) Daddy was either Ee or EE (one on, one off or both on) But clearly the E passed on. Baby would have Ee. If the baby did Not get the dun then the mom must have been Dd and the D didn't carry over. So if baby had a baby she has Ee - so depending on the daddy the foal could be red based.
Sounds like you're getting the hang of this.
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post #17 of 47 Old 01-31-2013, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks! I am just soooo curious of genetics, I want to know more!!!
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post #18 of 47 Old 01-31-2013, 01:24 PM
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Just tossing this out there, Breezy. When breeding, it's always a crap-shoot as to what you get, even if you know exactly which genes each parent carries because of the different possible ways those genes can combine.
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post #19 of 47 Old 01-31-2013, 01:25 PM
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Check out this learning game for genetics :) it's not perfect but it's interesting!
Horse Coat Color Genetics: An Introduction
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post #20 of 47 Old 01-31-2013, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DraftyAiresMum View Post
Just tossing this out there, Breezy. When breeding, it's always a crap-shoot as to what you get, even if you know exactly which genes each parent carries because of the different possible ways those genes can combine.
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I wouldn't say crap shoot - I think it's all pretty predictable... Except one foal I've got. Mommy was true black (don't know Ee or EE but no other dilutes). Daddy was palomno - foal is buckskin (sure makes sense right?) Daddy was Sabino - no other pattern, mom had no pattern, foal is medicine hat? I think I get lost as soon as I get into patterns I got colors down but patterns x.x
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