Grey and creme gene question!
 
 

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Grey and creme gene question!

This is a discussion on Grey and creme gene question! within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Grey palomino creme gene
  • Can a cremello horse turn gray

 
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    10-24-2011, 12:03 PM
  #1
Green Broke
Grey and creme gene question!

I own 3 greys.
Two heterozygous one homozygous.
(Which sucks, because if I decided to breed, which I am not, I would still have a good chance at a freaking grey. I am tired of running out of soap all the time:P )

I was thinking...
My rose grey filly, in a way, is like a chestnut greying out (that's how I see it).
At a show I went to, there was a grulla that was greying out and a red roan weanling that had the "masking" around the eyes like a grey does..

On a lot of double dilute studs, the ad says "color guaranteed except on grey mares". Kay, I've gotten that part now.

But my question is (lets see if I can word it correctly.) Is it possible to get the creme AND the grey, to wear you have a buckskin that greys out?
Or would the creme be hidden, and just be like a rose grey?
     
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    10-24-2011, 12:10 PM
  #2
Foal
Think of it this way. Grey covers ANY color. That includes dilute colors--creams, pearls, silvers, duns... It's the mask all! So you can have a cream that went grey. I know of a few. You can also have double dilute cremes that are grey (impossible to tell by looking at them for the most part)
     
    10-24-2011, 12:28 PM
  #3
Trained
Grey is the ultimate color eraser.

You will still have the same colors underneath, but grey covers them.
     
    10-24-2011, 01:37 PM
  #4
Showing
Grays can start out as any color. The gray gene is more like an "oh, and by the way..." type thing. "Yay, congrats on that beautiful buckskin/palomino foal....Oh, and by the way, they will be turning gray within the next couple of years" LOL.

My mustang, Dobe, was a buckskin when he was captured as a 2 year old (according to his papers anyway) and now he's just as gray as he can be.
     
    10-24-2011, 04:06 PM
  #5
Trained
Also rose gray isn't actually a specifix type of gray, it's just a name given to a particular stage of gray. Rose grays don't stay the mix of base color and gray they are, they will contimue to gray out until entirely gray.
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    10-25-2011, 12:23 AM
  #6
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs    
Grays can start out as any color. The gray gene is more like an "oh, and by the way..." type thing. "Yay, congrats on that beautiful buckskin/palomino foal....Oh, and by the way, they will be turning gray within the next couple of years" LOL.
That's a great way to explain it!

I look at it like the horse is born any "regular" color, and then if they inherit the gene for gray, they will turn gray. But your way of saying it is better.

The only thing I am fuzzy on, is grays normally have dark skin, correct? So what happens if you have something like a double dilute that also inherits gray? What color skin do they have? Eye color? Do they still look like a double dilute, or does the gray "trump" that and give them darker eyes and skin? Or do you just have a creme with bright white hair once they are "gray" but still has light eyes and pink skin?

What made me think of this, is that they say if you have a chestnut foal, they will normally be born with light skin (and it turns darker shortly). But if your chestnut foal is born with dark skin (and of course has a gray parent) being born with darker skin will be a sign they will turn gray.

So I wonder what "gray" will do to a double dilute, a horse that would normally have lighter skin?
     
    10-25-2011, 12:26 AM
  #7
Trained
Though I have not seen one personally, I would assume gray on a double dilute would retain its pink skin. If it didn't have pink skin, then it would be something other than a double dilute.

This summer, I saw a horse we figured to be araloosa. He was gray and the only indicators of appy in him were his striped hooves, sclera, and mottled skin on his face. Then he got wet in the rain one day and we found out he used to have a blanket. The skin differences were entirely obvious once his hair was wet, but when he was dry, his body was just white.
     
    10-25-2011, 12:32 AM
  #8
Green Broke
PS. I would say pinto patterns would be the ultimate color eraser, because they erase even better than gray. In other words, you can have a gray pinto and it will still have dark pigment where there are not spots, but anywhere the pinto markings are, even gray is erased. So pinto is the ultimate color eraser, especially in the extreme forms.

For instance, an extreme sabino would be nearly white with pink skin. So sabino erases better than gray because it also erases skin pigment. Hmm. I think I am mixing apples and oranges, but in my strange way of thinking it makes sense.

Pinto acts similar to gray, only different. Congrats on your beautiful palomino. It's also an extreme sabino so you won't see much of the palomino, lol!
     
    10-25-2011, 12:42 AM
  #9
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon    
Though I have not seen one personally, I would assume gray on a double dilute would retain its pink skin. If it didn't have pink skin, then it would be something other than a double dilute.

This summer, I saw a horse we figured to be araloosa. He was gray and the only indicators of appy in him were his striped hooves, sclera, and mottled skin on his face. Then he got wet in the rain one day and we found out he used to have a blanket. The skin differences were entirely obvious once his hair was wet, but when he was dry, his body was just white.
Really neat about the Araloosa.

And hmm, gray on a double dilute is something interesting to ponder! Maybe you couldn't even tell it was a gray, but the hair would still turn white eventually. So maybe it would look like an extra-bright double dilute?

Or, maybe it would look more like a gray, but test genetically as a double-dilute w/gray. In other words, phenotype would not match genotype?
     
    10-25-2011, 12:46 AM
  #10
Trained
Double dilutes give off a more creamy color than the usual bright white of grays, so I think the differences might be noticeable, but only to a trained eye.

FWIW, there was another gelding that was gray, but had very large blaze that extended to one eye, making it blue. If you looked close enough, you could see the edges of the blaze. From a distance, he too just appeared to be white.
     

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