he IS liver chestnut!! - Page 3

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he IS liver chestnut!!

This is a discussion on he IS liver chestnut!! within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Foal images liver
  • Liver chestnut foal pictures

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    07-10-2011, 11:17 AM
Looking at his foal pics I am going to have a stab at his colour. I think he is fading black. The colour of him as a foal, that silvery grey, is a common colour for black horses, not so much for any shade of red.

The reason I think his sire could be brown is the brown in his flank and down his rear. These are indicators of brown rather than bleached black - the inner flank there would be the last place to bleach if it was.

The full brother could be fading black or liver chestnut, those pictures aren't big enough for me to see. Either way, they are all taken on the same day, and pictures over several seasons are usually best for telling a horse's colour. Or foal and adult pictures.
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    07-10-2011, 11:50 AM
Oh really that's interesting..... how confusing... he is what he is I suppose and according to his passport he is liver chestnut :) haha....

I can imagine me explaining his colour to somebody:

'well he is black but he doesnt have any black on him, he kinda looks dark bay but he's not so his kind of a liver chestnut but has darker legs so he is technically just brown even thou he is genetically black as his dad is black, well his dad is technically brown but looks black......'
    07-10-2011, 11:54 AM
He really does not look liver from pictures at all. He looks really, really sunfaded.
    07-10-2011, 01:10 PM
Green Broke
It would be interesting to see winter photos of him, as his winter coat should lend more indication of his true color. If he's black, he should become almost totally black in winter.
    07-10-2011, 01:16 PM
He is not a True Bay, he has the lighter coloring in his tail..a true bay has a black mane and tail. From what I see, the sun has bleached him so that brings out a more chestnut look to him. But he still has the dark legs as a bay would, but a chestnut would not have. So he is somewhere in the middle. He probably got the darker legs from his parents who you said were black. I would say he is just Brown.
    07-10-2011, 01:18 PM
After really looking, he is somewhere in the middle really. He has an interesting color, but could probably pass off as a fading black, especially if the sun hadnt bleacher his coat.
    07-10-2011, 01:25 PM
Green Broke

It's already been discussed that he cannot be bay or brown because his parents are both black. When you breed two black horses, the only colors you can possibly have are black and chestnut.

Colors don't "mix" together like paint.
    07-10-2011, 01:29 PM
Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
As well as this, if both parents are black, they cannot produce a bay or brown foal
Actually, yes they can. Depending on if they are homozygous or heterozygous for the black gene. The parents could have the brown or chestnut gene in their lines..which normally, in this case, could still be heterozygous and happened to come out in the offspring. If you do a punnett square with the gene types, matching all (depending on what is what of course), this could result with the heterozygous being the foal. It just all depends on how the genes are carried.
    07-10-2011, 01:40 PM
Got it...have you thought about maybe being smokey black?...."A smoky black horse usually appears to be a black horse and the dilution gene dilution factor is not visible. However, the coat may be somewhat more prone to fade to a brown shade if weathered or sun-bleached"
He could be some kind of chocolate color. There are a few shades of this color. But there are some of both the chocolate and smokey color that greatly resemble your horse.
    07-10-2011, 01:48 PM
Agouti genes (the genes that control bay/brown) are dominate on a black horse. They "hide" only on red based horses due to the fact there is not black for agouti to affect.

A black horse has no agouti in any form. So two black horses cannot produce a bay/brown horse.

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