Help me out - She's brown, not bay, right? - Page 4
   

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Help me out - She's brown, not bay, right?

This is a discussion on Help me out - She's brown, not bay, right? within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        03-17-2013, 02:27 AM
      #31
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SorrelHorse    
    Yes, Aires, in the summer she is a bright copper/red color.
    But she's darker in the winter (like the last pic you posted)? If so, then I still say she's brown. Would be interested to see what Chillaa and NDAppy have to say.
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        03-17-2013, 02:29 AM
      #32
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grayshell38    
    Case and point, guess what color this horse is genetically-

    I know!! I know!!!

    And, unless I'm mistaken, doesn't wild bay pretty much always express in the same way (light legs and mane with black on the end of the muzzle and ears tips)?
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        03-17-2013, 02:31 AM
      #33
    Foal
    Thanks for being rude when I was just trying to help. I'm repeating what I know and do not appreciate being basically called a liar.
    Have fun figuring out what colour your horse is. If you were asking what she was, how do you know she's not a wild bay? Doesn't make sense to me..
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SorrelHorse    
    Wildcard, I'm sorry for sounding rude, but I really don't take any credibility from "my friend's horse looked like this"....

    I'm not completely ignorant, I know my mare is definitely not a wild bay.

    Yes, Aires, in the summer she is a bright copper/red color.
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        03-17-2013, 02:33 AM
      #34
    Trained
    I'm curious too! I'd love their opinions on this.

    Of course now I'm looking at these pictures I have of her in the summer and wondering about how big of a difference there really is, and how much I might be exaggerating what my mind THINKS it sees in her vs. what the photo proof is telling me.

    Summer:





    Hmmm. She looks lighter but not a significant amount I guess. Am I overthinking?
         
        03-17-2013, 02:36 AM
      #35
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wildcard    
    Thanks for being rude when I was just trying to help. I'm repeating what I know and do not appreciate being basically called a liar.
    Have fun figuring out what colour your horse is. If you were asking what she was, how do you know she's not a wild bay? Doesn't make sense to me..

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    I didn't ever say you were lying. Nor did I imply it.
    I simply stated I don't think that statement is a credible one. Never said you were telling me lies.
         
        03-17-2013, 02:36 AM
      #36
    Trained
    There is a difference. Not huge, but she is definitely darker in winter and you can see the lighter soft points.
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        03-17-2013, 02:36 AM
      #37
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DraftyAiresMum    
    I know!! I know!!!

    And, unless I'm mistaken, doesn't wild bay pretty much always express in the same way (light legs and mane with black on the end of the muzzle and ears tips)?
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    I never was too fond of this color until I ended up with one. (Not this shade, mind you, but genetically speaking...)

    Bay, brown, and Wild bay are black base. They are black horses that are affected by the Agouti gene. The three colors/patterns whatever, are three variations on that gene.

    Agouti suppresses the black body color of the horse and pushes it to the points. Each of the variations affect the black in differing amounts.

    Bay pushes the black to the points of the horse.
    Brown does the same but causes lighter coloration at the soft points of a horse.
    Wild Bay really pushes the black off the map. Very low or nonexistant black points. Also, may demonstrate lightening on soft points.

    Definitely NOT a pro or anything, this is just my plebeian go at it.
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        03-17-2013, 02:38 AM
      #38
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grayshell38    
    Bay pushes the black to the points of the horse.
    Brown does the same but causes lighter coloration at the soft points of a horse.
    Wild Bay really pushes the black off the map. Very low or nonexistant black points. Also, may demonstrate lightening on soft points.
    That's the way I understood it, too.
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        03-17-2013, 02:41 AM
      #39
    Green Broke
    Sorrel, I would love to see Selena tested, just to satisfy my own curiousity. I personally think that she is probably going to test as being bay. However, I would hesitate to just call her bay, because she definitely has the lighter soft points, which a "real" bay does not. So go test her *poke*

    Wildcard - just a few clarifications for you. First of all, there is no way that the OP's mare is wild bay. Wild bay restricts black extremely, and this includes on the legs and the mane and tail. Selena has far too much black on her legs for wild bay to be even a remote possibility. Secondly, the tests run by most labs for "bay" are not testing for the bay gene, but assuming it is there by elimination. They actually test for the recessive agouti gene, and if they cannot find it, they assume that the horse is carrying a dominant agouti gene. However, the flaw of this test is that there are three dominant agouti genes - wild bay, classic bay and brown - but the labs do not distinguish between them. The only lab that has any test that does is Pet DNA, so unless your friend had her arab tested through that particular lab, then the test result doesn't say the horse is bay - the results actually say the horse is not unrestricted black.
    Cat, smrobs, grayshell38 and 5 others like this.
         
        03-17-2013, 02:50 AM
      #40
    Foal
    Yeah I realized she is not a wild bay, I got confused there :p and no my friend tested him through a university genetics lab, it cost her 50$ and they sent the paper back saying something along the lines of dominant agouti
    Etc therefore the horse is tested as bay. Ill see if I can get her to scan the test for me. I'm not sure what you mean by pet lab?
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
    Sorrel, I would love to see Selena tested, just to satisfy my own curiousity. I personally think that she is probably going to test as being bay. However, I would hesitate to just call her bay, because she definitely has the lighter soft points, which a "real" bay does not. So go test her *poke*

    Wildcard - just a few clarifications for you. First of all, there is no way that the OP's mare is wild bay. Wild bay restricts black extremely, and this includes on the legs and the mane and tail. Selena has far too much black on her legs for wild bay to be even a remote possibility. Secondly, the tests run by most labs for "bay" are not testing for the bay gene, but assuming it is there by elimination. They actually test for the recessive agouti gene, and if they cannot find it, they assume that the horse is carrying a dominant agouti gene. However, the flaw of this test is that there are three dominant agouti genes - wild bay, classic bay and brown - but the labs do not distinguish between them. The only lab that has any test that does is Pet DNA, so unless your friend had her arab tested through that particular lab, then the test result doesn't say the horse is bay - the results actually say the horse is not unrestricted black.
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