Looking for dilute genetics on seal brown horses - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 03-10-2011, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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Looking for dilute genetics on seal brown horses

I am interested in finding someone that has had a foal out of either a perlino/cremello parent crossed on a seal brown mating....so either a dilute stud on a brown mare or a brown stud on a dilute mare. This is strictly for research purposes, I already know the dilute genetics but am looking for actual pictures of the resulting foals. Trying to find out what colors people have gotten from the cross. I am thinking a strong smutty buckskin but need more input.

Thank you!
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post #2 of 22 Old 03-10-2011, 04:19 PM
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There are a few brown based bucksins here:

Morgan Colors- Buckskin Morgan Horses

I've seen more duns that tested brown-based than cream dilutes
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post #3 of 22 Old 03-10-2011, 05:53 PM
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Wakiya, a horse cannot be "brown based", they are black based because horses can only be black or red based. Brown horses are black based and carry the black gene, which is where the buckskin came from.

Interesting concept though. I wonder if the different agoutis react differently when cream dilutions are applied, so I'm subscribing to this.
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post #4 of 22 Old 03-10-2011, 06:25 PM
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Oh I know they can only be black or red and that agouti only works on a black base, I just meant under the cream they were brown not bay
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post #5 of 22 Old 03-22-2011, 07:31 PM
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A crossing of a 'seal brown' horse and a cremello/perlino would generally result in a buckskin foal. This is because a 'seal brown' horse is actually a bay.

The only thing different between the two is that bays have a black muzzle, and seal browns have ginger-ish muzzles and points (like between the thigh and barrel).

If passing genes were unknown (like homozygous agouti, etc.), there is a 58.34% chance that the foal will be buckskin, 33.33% chance that it'd be palomino and 8.33% chance for smoky black. Again, these are the chances on a bay/seal brown horse crossed with a cremello, neither of which have been tested for heritable genes.

Hope this helped!

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~Meghana, Mont Lemay Farm
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post #6 of 22 Old 03-22-2011, 08:01 PM
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Meghana, Bay and Brown are different colours. Seal browns are not bays. The two colours are caused by two different forms of the Agouti gene. Theoretically, the cream gene should act differently on the Agouti gene that causes brown than the Agouti gene that causes bay (I cannot remember their exact names right now) because they are different genes.
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post #7 of 22 Old 03-22-2011, 08:07 PM
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I'm sure there is a slight genetic difference (how else would the colors come differently?). Read this:


"The Agouti gene controls the distribution of black pigment. This pigment can be either uniformly distributed or distributed to "points" of the body (ear rims, lower legs, mane, tail). Agouti has been linked to a deletion of 11 nucleotides in the agouti gene. The 11 nucleotide deletion of this gene is the recessive form of the gene. Only when the agouti gene is homozygous for the deletion (aa) is the black pigment evenly distributed. Heterozygous (Aa) or homozygous for the absence of the 11 nucleotide deletion (AA) results in point distribution of black pigment. Agouti has no effect on homozygous positive red factor (ee) horses for there has to be black pigment present for agouti to have an effect."
~Animal Genetics Inc., Animal Genetics

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post #8 of 22 Old 03-22-2011, 08:15 PM
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I know how it works, but I think what the OP was wondering was if they caused slight differences in what the cream dilutes would look like or if they come out as buckskins looking the same.
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post #9 of 22 Old 03-22-2011, 08:18 PM
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I'm pretty sure they would...? As I said before...

"The best gold and silver doesn't clatter - it neighs."
~Meghana, Mont Lemay Farm
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post #10 of 22 Old 03-22-2011, 08:24 PM
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But I don't think there's a whole lot of research on it. They're two separate, but similar genes that make two separate, but similar colours. You would think that adding another gene would make two more separate, but similar colours. Does that make sense? Technically, the Brown + Cream should look different than a Bay + Cream, but not that different.

Last edited by Poseidon; 03-22-2011 at 08:27 PM.
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