The LP Complex
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics > Horse Colors and Genetics

The LP Complex

This is a discussion on The LP Complex within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Lp LP heterozygous
  • Coco complex for horses

Like Tree22Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    02-18-2013, 04:12 PM
  #1
Green Broke
Question The LP Complex

I have some questions about the LP genes.

1) When crossed with solid colored horses who do not carry the LP gene will you still get spots?

2) What is the most dominant LP gene? I think I read that varnish roan was incomplete dominance... What exactly does that mean? And is this true for all the separate LP patterns? Like blankets, roans, leopards, few spot, ect...

3) Is there any way to determine what pattern a foal will get or is it just kind of an act of God so to speak?

I think that's all for now. Thanks in advanced!
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    02-18-2013, 08:00 PM
  #2
Weanling
I am not an expert but I love Appaloosas!

When a horse is LpLp, they carry one copy of the gene and can pass it on. The foal could be a solid or have a pattern but even if a solid, it would still carry a copy of the gene and produce a foal with spots when bred to another horse that also carries it.

LPLP are homozygous for it and will produce a pattern 100% of them time. These horses will also suffer from congenital stationary night blindness.

Anyone better than me feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

EDIT: From what I've been reading and hearing in the Appy community, the snowcap pattern tends to produce colored foals most of the time. I have no clue if snowcaps are LpLp or LPLP.

I've always wondered if the different types of patterns were the results of different genes but I've never asked nor researched that completely. No test exists yet to test for them anyway as far as I know.

EDIT II: Also I understand that few spots are very desirable because they tend to be high color producers.

Appaloosa LP and CSNB Testing
     
    02-18-2013, 08:06 PM
  #3
Banned
I'll answer what I can as best I can...

A colored/spotted Appy will throw color/spots on 25% of foals when crossed with a solid horse if the Appy is heterozygous, and 100% of the foals if it is homozygous (true fewspot or true snowcap).

I am not sure there is a "dominant" LP gene. We still do not know everything there is about Appy genetics and exactly why some are blankets, some are varnish roans, and why some have more than one pattern.

Normally there is no way to determine what pattern (if any) a foal will have, other than it will have something if one of its parents is homozygous. However, there are lines and combinations of lines that do produce a high incidence of leopards, and their are some lines and combination of lines that very rarely produce a solid foal. As we continue to discover more about Appy genetics, more and more of the answers will become clear...


ETA...Just a short opinion-editorial - Horses should not be bred only for color, so a fewspot should not be any more desireable as breeding stock than any other pattern. Horses should be bred for ability - not color. Sorry for the op-ed...the devil made me do it...
     
    02-18-2013, 08:30 PM
  #4
Trained
Incomplete dominance means a single gene will produce a certain effect, while carrying both genes will cause a different effect. That's about as basic as I can figure out how to explain it. Cream is an incomplete dominant. Crcr will give you palomino, buckskin, and smoky black. CrCr will give you cremello, perlino, and smoky cream.

I'm awful at how Appy genes actually work, I just know how to determine the pattern of them.
     
    02-18-2013, 08:36 PM
  #5
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceman    
A colored/spotted Appy will throw color/spots on 25% of foals when crossed with a solid horse if the Appy is heterozygous, and 100% of the foals if it is homozygous (true fewspot or true snowcap).
If the appy color is dominant, defined as that the color will show whether the horse is homozygous or heterozygous, and it is bred to a solid horse, which would not carry the gene, then how do you get the 25% rather than 50% if the appy horse is heterozygous? Would it not have a 50/50 chance of producing a foal with the appy trait?

Am I missing something?
Spotted likes this.
     
    02-18-2013, 11:27 PM
  #6
Green Broke
Is there anyway to tell if a horse is homozygous or heterozygous without testing? Or do you always have to test? I have a mare that shows a blanket with some spots and varnish roan, are those indicators of homo or hetero?

Face- I don't plan on breeding for color, but if I do want to breed it's nice to know whats going on genetically. I know that tempermant and conformation trump color. Appy's are my breed of choice so it's nice to know about their different pattern traits.
     
    02-18-2013, 11:50 PM
  #7
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste    
If the appy color is dominant, defined as that the color will show whether the horse is homozygous or heterozygous, and it is bred to a solid horse, which would not carry the gene, then how do you get the 25% rather than 50% if the appy horse is heterozygous? Would it not have a 50/50 chance of producing a foal with the appy trait?

Am I missing something?
(recessive/non-existent alleles will be "n" for extra clarity)
Let's say a stallion is heterozygous for whatever pattern, nLP.
The mare is solid, doesn't carry any appaloosa pattern, nn.

---- n -- LP
N -- nn - nLP
N -- nn - nLP

So yes, there's a 50/50 chance with a heterozygous leopard and a non-leopard. Now, if it were two heterozygous leopards...

---- n -- LP
N -- nn - nLP
LP - nLP - LPLP

Then we get the 25% for both non-leopard and homozygous leopard and still 50% for heterozygous leopard.

So yes, you're correct...though I don't think we can really place a completely accurate number on what a foal will be...it's not like literally one out of four foals will be non-leopard and everything...XD
     
    02-19-2013, 12:05 AM
  #8
Weanling
From what I have read (there's a good article I am trying to find for you, I'll post if I find it), Lp is an incompletely dominant gene. (Appaloosa Genetics: Part I | Appaloosa Journal)

As far as we know there is only ONE gene that causes appaloosa characteristics -- The Lp gene -- it's kinda confusing because obviously not every appaloosa is a leopard, however, all appaloosas when combined with a specific mate CAN produce a leopard.

So, as much as I hate the term, a "varnish" roan, looks the way it does as a result of the Lp gene. There are no other genes involved, that people know of yet, to cause such a phenotype.

As Faceman said, yes, there are ways to tell if a horse is homo/heter w/out testing.

A few spot (nearly "white") is considered homozygous as well as a TRUE snowcap.
     
    02-19-2013, 12:14 AM
  #9
Weanling
FOUND IT!!!

Appaloosa Colour Pattern Transmission
     
    02-19-2013, 12:25 AM
  #10
Green Broke
Yall have been very helpful!

I found one of this studs foals for sale on Craigslist and I just think he is gorgeous.
He is a snowcap correct? Is there something else at play causing his spottiness in the other areas?

     

Quick Reply
Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
would love some help/advice on what to do with my complex OTTB please! kathryne12 Horse Health 34 11-29-2011 09:27 AM
Stallion Complex Jamiee Horse Training 10 11-25-2011 06:09 PM
Coco Soya VS Coco Complex??? cowgirlfitzy Horse Health 3 07-02-2009 03:05 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0