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Paint horses with Rabicano

This is a discussion on Paint horses with Rabicano within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category

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        10-31-2013, 08:00 AM
      #11
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ace80908    
    Daisy also sports numerous patterns: frame, sabino, and rabicano...

    Here are a few pics showing the skunk tail and flank ticking, she also has the ticking pronounced in other areas as well...

    She will be bred this spring to VS Code Blue - he is a red roan quarter... can't wait to see what color I get from this cross!!

    His pic as well!
    Has he stallion been tested for frame? You don't want to accidently breed frame to frame.
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        11-01-2013, 12:54 AM
      #12
    Yearling
    No, he is straight AQHA with no double registered or cropouts in his lines.
         
        11-01-2013, 01:02 AM
      #13
    Trained
    That doesn't mean anything. There are plenty of minimal frame, splash, or sabino AQHA horses. Actually, there are a ton of QHs that I would bet would test positive for sabino. And there are plenty that have a lot of chrome that qualifies as "normal" markings. For example: Sonny Dee Bar was splash and passed that to many of his foals.
         
        11-01-2013, 01:53 AM
      #14
    Yearling
    I don't disagree that it is a sure thing to test, but the frame is the gene that produces OLWS, not splash or sabino... AQHA's that have produced a lethal can be traced to a double registered or a cropout family - the weiscamp lines are also known for it. He is not tested for OLWS, and I feel very comfortable in breeding to him.
         
        11-01-2013, 04:08 AM
      #15
    Yearling
    Yes but frame can hide. It isn't only in those lines, any horse in a breed that has it should be tested before breeding.
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        11-01-2013, 05:09 AM
      #16
    Yearling
    Frame can hide, but not generation after generation of non cropout, non double registered AQHAs... His owner didn't test him for OLWS because he is not at risk of it. He has a five panel test for applicable issues, all negative. My answer stands. This thread isn't about breeding an APHA Frame mare to a AQHA stud, if someone wants to open that one up it's an interesting debate. I feel there is no risk, my trainer and the stud's owner feel the same. I'm the one breeding, and I have no worries. But to each their own. Here are some of the stats on this.

    Testing of OLWS foals, their parents, and unrelated horses revealed that all OLWS foals had two copies of the defective gene, their parents had one, and unrelated horses had none. Simply put, if carriers are never again bred to each other, there can never be another OLWS foal born. Horses at greatest risk of carrying the defective allele are overos, particularly of American Paint Horses and American Miniature Horse breeding. A small number of Tobiano and breeding stock horses also carry the defective gene, and a very small number of carrier horses have been detected in other breeds.
    Copyright 1996-2000 American Association of Equine Practitioners. All rights reserved.
    Overo Lethal White Syndrome - AAEP

    OLWS Overo Lethal White Syndrome (OLWS)
    Horses that carry this gene are most commonly overo white patterned horses (frame overos), but there are exceptions. The defective gene has been found in American Paint Horses, American Miniature Horses, Half-Arabians, Thoroughbreds, and cropout Quarter Horses (foals born to registered Quarter Horse parents that have too much white to qualify for registration with the American Quarter Horse Association).
    https://sites.google.com/site/painth...gends/genetics

    Now perhaps this thread can return to the OP's topic.
         
        11-01-2013, 07:56 AM
      #17
    Yearling
    ... because I was on the mid shift and bored, looked up the health testing of VS Code Blue's sire and dam. RL Best of Sudden - OLWS n/n. Vital Signs are Good OLWS n/n. She is hypp n/h, but Code Blue is n/n. So there ya go, no risk - other than every risk you take when breeding...

    Now back to our original programming
         
        11-01-2013, 09:42 AM
      #18
    Trained
    Ace, I am really happy that your chosen stallion is not positive for frame. I too was having a think about it, mostly because the stallion's page says nothing about his LWO status, and that always rings alarm bells.

    As for frame hiding, it has been well documented that it is extremely possible for it to hide for multiple generations. The fact is, it very rarely presents as a horse with no white at all (although that is still possible), but instead, as a horse with "normal" white markings. The following horses have all been tested as frame positive, and as you can see, have no indicators in terms of body white.





         
        11-01-2013, 11:00 AM
      #19
    bjb
    Weanling
    This past spring I know of a little lethal white baby that was born. I can only imagine how tragic it would be to look forward to something for so long just to have it be born doomed to death shortly after. The breeder breeds a lot of Overos together and this is the first lethal white I know of. When people question the logic behind it she tells people not all Overos have frame. I am not sure I believe that but im not totally sure there. I happen to have Overo mares so if I were to ever breed I would be sure the sire was negative for frame.

    ACE80908: im glad your potential baby is not at risk for lethal white. :)
         
        11-01-2013, 11:12 AM
      #20
    Trained
    That is the problem with the word "overo". It literally means "a horse that has body white that is probably not tobiano". It could be caused by any of these:

    Frame
    Sabino (one testable mutation, at least one more still not found)
    Splash (three testable mutations, at least one more probably still not found)
    Dominant White (11 known strains, five testable, probably many more out there)
    Rabicano

    So that is a total of ten testable mutations that cause patches of body white and are not tobiano, with at least nine more that are not testable yet. As you can imagine, overo covers a lot, and only one of those genes causes a lethal white foal.
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