Paint x Percheron Coloring? - The Horse Forum

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post #1 of 18 Old 03-08-2012, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
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Paint x Percheron Coloring?

Just curious what I would get if I bred this mare to this stud. The mare is a grey and white Paint (mom was a sorrel paint, dad was a grey QH) and the stud is a black Percheron. I am not saying I'm doing it! Just a thought for the future. The baby could be registered as a Pinto but that's it I believe. The mare is registered as a Paint and a Pinto, and the stud is a registered Percheron. My brother loves drafts and draft crosses, and since they finished building their house, and are starting to put up their barn, he asked if I would ever breed her for him. He's a genius with horses and I know that baby would have an amazing home.

I have too much planned to do with this mare to breed her right now, strictly curious!

Sorry he's standing weird and a mess, its a mud pit in Wisconsin right now! (P.S. He belongs to a friend of mine.)



This is the mare:

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post #2 of 18 Old 03-09-2012, 12:44 AM
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The mare's picture did not load. If the stallion is homozygous black, you have a few color options. First is the 50% chance of grey, and 50% chance of the pinto gene getting passed. Now your baby will be either a black or bay, depending on the mare's agouti status.
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post #3 of 18 Old 03-09-2012, 11:57 PM
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Most perchs are homo for black, but there is a recessive sorrel gene in the breed. So 1/2 chance of grey. 1/2 of pinto.

Since mom was sorrel under the grey, you can't get bay. So just black or a vague possibility of sorrel - I have only seen two pictures of sorrel perches.
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post #4 of 18 Old 03-10-2012, 12:17 AM
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Just a note, the baby wouldn't be able to be registered as a pinto. Percheron is not an accepted cross to be considered for registry. Trust me...I looked into registering my Percheron/paint gelding with the PtHA. Straight from their registration guidelines page: PtHA ? Registration

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post #5 of 18 Old 03-10-2012, 12:25 AM
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There is a possibility of a bay. We don't know what the mare's base color is, only that she is gray and her dam was sorrel. That leaves a multitude of possibilities. Even if the mare was also a sorrel based gray, she can carry an agouti gene without anyone knowing because agouti doesn't act on red gened horses.

Just so you know, though, breeding to a paint mare, even if she is homozygous for color, doesn't guarantee a colored foal. I've got a horse out of a similar breeding, perch stud, paint momma, and this was the outcome
.

The only white on him is a striped face and he has horrible conformation, in spite of both sire and dam being well conformed.

To be perfectly honest, you're brother would likely have better luck getting something nice if he just went out and bought what he wanted. Horses, especially grade horses, are going for a pittance. Compare spending maybe $200 for a nicely green broke half draft to hundreds in vet cost just during the pregnancy, plus the risk to the mare, plus the feed and care for an addition 3+ years before the foal is even ready to be ridden. We're talking thousands of dollars and being afoot for at least 4 years when he could go pick out the color and temperament he wanted within just a few months and be riding immediately after purchase.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
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post #6 of 18 Old 03-10-2012, 08:30 PM
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Ever notice that most spotted drafts are black and white when crossed with a paint and a percheron when you have a red and white or bay and white they are usually paints crossed with belgians clyds and shires. Either you will get a black and white spotted foal or solid black.
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post #7 of 18 Old 03-10-2012, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimberRidgeRanch View Post
Ever notice that most spotted drafts are black and white when crossed with a paint and a percheron when you have a red and white or bay and white they are usually paints crossed with belgians clyds and shires. Either you will get a black and white spotted foal or solid black.
Not so, if the non Percheron horse passes an agouti, you will not get a black. The agouti controls the black no matter what. A trend doesn't always hold true, I am sure you could find plenty of non black Percheron crosses when they were crossed with a red based horse.

It is more likely that more people breed their black pintos to percherons to get black pinto crosses. IMO
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post #8 of 18 Old 03-10-2012, 11:15 PM
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If her mare is a grey pinto and she wants to breed to the black percheron stud she's going to get either a smokey black or black foal. Grey isnt a color its a ...ugh whats that word lol... anyways only way she can get another grey color is with another grey. But I would bet the foal would be black or maybe even black and white spotted ( which can be registered under NASDHA )or she may get a smokey black color. If the foal is spotted no matter what color the good lord tends it to be it can be registered with NASDHA good luck be safe Love your horses TRR
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post #9 of 18 Old 03-10-2012, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimberRidgeRanch View Post
If her mare is a grey pinto and she wants to breed to the black percheron stud she's going to get either a smokey black or black foal. Grey isnt a color its a ...ugh whats that word lol... anyways only way she can get another grey color is with another grey. But I would bet the foal would be black or maybe even black and white spotted ( which can be registered under NASDHA )or she may get a smokey black color. If the foal is spotted no matter what color the good lord tends it to be it can be registered with NASDHA good luck be safe Love your horses TRR

No. The foal cannot be a smoky black. Neither parent has a cream gene.

Grey only needs a single gene, which means it can come from one parent, and doesn't need to be from both.
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post #10 of 18 Old 03-10-2012, 11:39 PM
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DRAFTYAIRES have you looked into registering your horse with NASDHA since he is Paint/percheron?
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