Pinto Colouring Probability? - Page 3

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Pinto Colouring Probability?

This is a discussion on Pinto Colouring Probability? within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Pinto gene in horses uc Davis results

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    11-04-2012, 01:37 AM
Do you have a link to the stallion's page?
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    11-04-2012, 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
Do you have a link to the stallion's page?
Sure do. Karma Ridge Stables - Painted Coos APHA #4060181997 APHA/PtHA*Stallion(Coosunga X Lances Flash Back)*PEDIGREE
    11-04-2012, 01:50 AM
Kk that makes it easy now :)

50% chance of tobiano from the sire. I would also say he has some form of sabino, so probably a 75% chance of sabino in some form on the foal. 50% chance of splash from dam. All three of these can be present at once, so chances are really good for a foal with a white patterning gene.

However, this does not guarantee a baby with an extensive expression of any of these genes. We know there are some sort of white suppression genes in horses, and their inheritance is not understood at this point. We see homozygous tobiano horses, for example, who have two small socks on back feet and no other white on their body. So while the genes are there, they may just manifest as "normal" white markings.
    11-04-2012, 01:01 AM
Thank you! That helps clarify some things. I know there is no 100% guarantee for colour in this case and if I don't get colour, I can still register the foal with CptHA as breeding stock anyway. It would be nice, but colour is not a necessity for me. I'm more concerned with health and temperament.
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    11-04-2012, 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by chandra1313    
If she has conformation faults then she can pass that along to her babies. I should have said improving the breed, not adding sorry.
I've yet to see a horse with NO conformation faults- it's a matter of picking the horses with minimal faults to breed. The goal of a responsible breeder should be to balance out those minor conformation faults that do exist on the horses they decide to breed by picking an appropriate match, while at the same time paying just as much attention to temperament, genetic diseases, and (for some breeds, like Paint) color.
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    11-04-2012, 03:14 PM
Also, thought I'd point out to OP- your horse isn't just bay, she's brown: The badass brown.
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    11-04-2012, 03:30 PM
Really? I've always been told she is Bay! I read the post about "badass browns." Do you happen to know what the actual difference is between Bay and Brown? I've done some research on it, but it seems difficult to differentiate between the two. I've included some photos from her in previous years, although these are about 4 years old. She looks more "bayish" in these ones. The other reason why I suspected Bay is because her sire was heterozygous dominant for Bay. Her dam was a sorrel.


    11-04-2012, 04:16 PM
Visually, the difference between bay and brown is that brown horses have lighter orangey-red 'soft' points (muzzle, behind the elbow, flank) They also tend to vary a lot more seasonally than bay horses, with the soft points being most obvious in the winter coat. In the summer coat, many brown horses lighten and can look just like bay horses, which is one example of why it's best to have winter pictures (or better yet winter and summer) pictures of a horse when trying to determine it's true color. Most horses that people call dark bay or seal bay are actually brown.

Genetically, both 'bay' and 'brown' are variations of agouti- the "bay gene," which restricts the expression of black on an otherwise black-based horse. Chestnut horses can carry agouti, but they don't express it because they have no black to be restricted.

When you see results for a horse that's been color tested, they usually look something like Ee AA: the 'E' represents the Extension gene (e for red, E for black) and the 'A' is the agouti gene. A horse with two 'a' genes does not carry agouti; 'A' is classic bay, and 'At' is brown (there's also a 3rd variation called wild bay which is marked 'A+' but there is no test for this one yet) There's currently only one lab that can test for 'At' (PetDNA), so if you test with another facility like UC Davis, they can differentiate between 'a' and 'not-a', but not between 'A' and 'At'. 'At' is dominant over 'A', so if a horse is genetically At/At, At/A or At/a, he will be visually a brown horse.
    11-04-2012, 04:31 PM
Verona A is dominate over At and At is dominate over A+.
    11-04-2012, 04:41 PM
Originally Posted by Chiilaa    
The underlined part is not true. None of the genes lumped under the ambiguous term of "overo" are recessive.
Learn something new every day.
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