red dun? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 26 Old 03-23-2013, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Wait wait wait-- a red dun doesnt have agouti? So a horse with 'dun factor' doesnt have agouti?

What causes the 'black points' on a dun?
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post #12 of 26 Old 03-23-2013, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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I loveeeee the second red dun-- such a butterball. Very neat shade too. Pink!!
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post #13 of 26 Old 03-23-2013, 07:08 PM
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Agouti restricts black and only black. It causes a black horse to become bay, brown, or wild bay. Any horse that is further modified from bay, brown, or wild bay will have whatever form of agouti that caused the original modification of black (ie, buckskin or perlino are still A_)

A red horse is homozygous red (ee) and has no black to be restricted. So a chestnut/red dun/palomino/cremello/what have you CAN carry agouti, but you'd never know just looking; it would require a genetic test.

A "normal" dun is actually dun on bay, so yes a bay dun would have agouti because bay is black + A. A red dun COULD have agouti, but it is red-based and therefore no black to restrict. Dun is a separate gene altogether that dilutes color, lightens the body and not the legs, mane, or tail, hence why red duns and grullos have a similar darker leg effect that agouti would cause separately.
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post #14 of 26 Old 03-23-2013, 07:21 PM
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Toto are you thinking of a bay dun like this -
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post #15 of 26 Old 03-23-2013, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
Agouti restricts black and only black. It causes a black horse to become bay, brown, or wild bay. Any horse that is further modified from bay, brown, or wild bay will have whatever form of agouti that caused the original modification of black (ie, buckskin or perlino are still A_)

A red horse is homozygous red (ee) and has no black to be restricted. So a chestnut/red dun/palomino/cremello/what have you CAN carry agouti, but you'd never know just looking; it would require a genetic test.

A "normal" dun is actually dun on bay, so yes a bay dun would have agouti because bay is black + A. A red dun COULD have agouti, but it is red-based and therefore no black to restrict. Dun is a separate gene altogether that dilutes color, lightens the body and not the legs, mane, or tail, hence why red duns and grullos have a similar darker leg effect that agouti would cause separately.

Awesome explanation! I get this now-- i think..

A red dun would look like this?.. eeAADD eeAaDd eeaaDD eeaaDd eeAaDD eeAADd?
And a 'bay dun' would be EeAaDd..etc?
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post #16 of 26 Old 03-23-2013, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NdAppy View Post
Toto are you thinking of a bay dun like this -

No, i didnt mean 'bay dun' like this.. I was thinking 'regular dun factor', lol.


Wait.. isnt there a 'bay dun' and a regular dun factor?

Dun confuses me. ..Quick throw me a life-saver-- im drowndin in the dun factor gene pool!! lol.

Last edited by toto; 03-23-2013 at 07:37 PM. Reason: add
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post #17 of 26 Old 03-23-2013, 07:36 PM
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Dun is its own gene that causes color dilution, a dorsal stripe, leg barring, shoulder barring, and cobwebbing. Those are the "dun factors." It can affect any color it feels like. The color commonly referred to as just "dun" is actually bay dun. Black + A agouti + dun.
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post #18 of 26 Old 03-23-2013, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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I got ya now. EEaaDD = Grullo/a or 'black dun' EeAaDd = Bay or 'classic dun' eeAaDd = red dun
EeAtatDd = brown dun?

I been doing reasearch on the dun gene, but i dont understand what it actually did. Ive read it is a dilution, but it makes the horse a 'yellow-ish' rather than buckskin-- witch makes a brownish.

I have a question about a black mare now-- she had white leg barring on all 4 legs, 3 socks, and a star and snip.. but was solid black-- what could have caused her leg barring? Could she have been an extra sooty variation of EEaaDD?

Last edited by toto; 03-23-2013 at 07:55 PM. Reason: spellingx2
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post #19 of 26 Old 03-23-2013, 07:55 PM
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Without a picture of the markings we really can't give good guestimate
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post #20 of 26 Old 03-23-2013, 07:57 PM
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I would have to see a picture.

And as far as bay dun and buckskin: A bay dun is a "flatter" color than buckskin. They might be shiny, like the one above, but the color is still a duller shade. A buckskin is gold and will have a gold-tinted shine to them.

Buckskins also may have dorsal stripes caused by countershading, but will not have leg barring unless they are also dun, making them a dunskin.

Do some reading from this website. It will help. www.morgancolors.com
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