Smokey Buckskin or Black Bay? - The Horse Forum
 1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 Old 03-19-2012, 12:09 AM Thread Starter
Started
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Far From Sanity
Posts: 2,284
• Horses: 0
Smokey Buckskin or Black Bay?

4 yr old AQHA black buckskin mare

This mare looks bay to me...I am not a genetics expert though. I'm just curious if it is true because her color looks exactly like my mare Jazmine's current coat...which I think is just black bay?

Last edited by Piaffe; 03-19-2012 at 12:18 AM.
Piaffe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 03-19-2012, 12:15 AM
Green Broke
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Valley of the Sun
Posts: 2,913
• Horses: 3
I wouldn't say she was a buckskin. Some kind of bay, but I don't know what kind.
Our new kid's papers say she's a grey, but she looks like a bay roan to me so who knows.

So in lies the madness, the pursuit of the impossible in the face of the complete assurance that you will fail, and yet still you chase.
flytobecat is offline  
post #3 of 16 Old 03-19-2012, 12:21 AM Thread Starter
Started
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Far From Sanity
Posts: 2,284
• Horses: 0
Pics of my mare are on here. The most recent are the lower ones. I think she is just a sunbleached black bay? They just look pretty similar.

DLizza X Armani SVS foaling thread!
Piaffe is offline  
post #4 of 16 Old 03-19-2012, 12:22 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 5,153
• Horses: 0
Smoky black can be very deceptive. It can appear to be just a plain black, or it can be really faded. All these horses are smoky black.






Mods, grant me the serenity to see the opinions I cannot change, courage to change the ones that should change, and the wisdom to spot the trolls.
Chiilaa is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 03-19-2012, 12:23 AM Thread Starter
Started
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Far From Sanity
Posts: 2,284
• Horses: 0
Wow^^^ I had no idea! Is there a test for it then?
Piaffe is offline  
post #6 of 16 Old 03-19-2012, 12:23 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 5,153
• Horses: 0
And Piaffe - your mare looks brown to me. Brown is notorious for changing a LOT with seasons.

Mods, grant me the serenity to see the opinions I cannot change, courage to change the ones that should change, and the wisdom to spot the trolls.
Chiilaa is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 03-19-2012, 12:24 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 5,153
• Horses: 0
There is a test. Smoky black is a black horse with no agouti (so not bay or brown) and a cream gene.

Mods, grant me the serenity to see the opinions I cannot change, courage to change the ones that should change, and the wisdom to spot the trolls.
Chiilaa is offline  
post #8 of 16 Old 03-19-2012, 12:25 AM Thread Starter
Started
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Far From Sanity
Posts: 2,284
• Horses: 0
Is that mare smokey black or smokey buckskin or is it the same?

What is the difference between black bay and brown? Lol...sorry...so many questions!
Piaffe is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 03-19-2012, 12:41 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 5,153
• Horses: 0
Let me get technical with you

A black horse will have the following genotype: E_ aa crcr

This means that the horse has at least one copy of the black extension - E. Two EE means they are homozygous for black. Ee would be a red based horse, basically a chestnut.

To be black and not bay or brown, the horse needs to be aa. This means they have no copy of the agouti gene. There are three definite types of agouti gene, and two of them have been isolated - bay (A) and brown (At). The other is wild bay (A+) and hasn't been isolated yet. The current theory leans toward a simple dominance of agouti - A+ A At. So to be wild bay, the horse only needs one copy of the A+ gene, to be "plain" bay they need an A gene and not to have an A+ gene, and to be brown they need an At gene and no other agouti gene (I am not sure this is the case, but that's personal opinion so I will try to leave it be lol). Any copy of the agouti gene means the horse is no longer "black" and is some type of bay.

Then we have the cream gene. Crcr is no copies of cream, and the horse will be the colour designated by it's other genes, in this case, black. Give them a single cream, and they become Crcr, and a single dilute. This can be called lots of things - smoky black and black buckskin are the two most common, and most people that know the colour will understand if you use either of those names. If the horse has two copies of the cream gene, they are CrCr, and are a double dilute. Most people call a double dilute black a Smoky Cream, but I have heard it being referred to as a black perlino.

Questions?

Mods, grant me the serenity to see the opinions I cannot change, courage to change the ones that should change, and the wisdom to spot the trolls.
Chiilaa is offline  
post #10 of 16 Old 03-19-2012, 06:42 AM
Trained
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,132
• Horses: 0
Chiilaa I don't know if it capitalized what you wrtoe or what, but ee would be red based, not Ee.
NdAppy is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.



User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cocoa Smokey black weanling Moveurasets Horse Pictures 10 02-25-2012 10:00 AM
Okay, so smokey black right? Loyalty09 Horse Colors and Genetics 19 12-14-2011 09:29 PM
Black + Buckskin= Palomino? grayshell38 Horse Colors and Genetics 2 11-30-2011 06:20 PM
Is Bourbon a brown or smokey black? LuvMyPerlinoQH Horse Colors and Genetics 2 07-11-2011 11:40 AM
Smokey black + Gray? NY Nickers Horse Colors and Genetics 8 03-07-2011 09:59 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome