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post #11 of 31 Old 05-17-2011, 08:50 AM
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cremes usualy have black skin and champs have pink skin hazel eyes and a metalic like sheen to their coats. I doubt the mare is a creme but if she is its probably on a champ
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post #12 of 31 Old 05-17-2011, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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Definitely pink skin and hazel eyes. Not sure about the metallic sheen... I can't wait to see what we get!
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post #13 of 31 Old 05-17-2011, 11:19 AM
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Champagne and cream are both dilution genes, but like mentioned, champagnes have mottled skin like Appys around their eyes, muzzle, under their tail, etc, amber/hazel eyes, and their coats tend to be shinier than a normal horse.

Since champagne dilutes a coat colour similarly to the way cream does, amber champagnes are often confused with buckskins and gold champagnes are often confused with palominos.

I guess we might find out if she does have cream in there somewhere when she foals.
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post #14 of 31 Old 05-17-2011, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a picture of her whole body and one of her face. You can see the spots thought. I never really noticed them before.
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File Type: jpg 121.jpg (97.6 KB, 148 views)

Last edited by momo3boys; 05-17-2011 at 12:41 PM. Reason: I forgot the pictures
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post #15 of 31 Old 05-17-2011, 12:45 PM
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She looks a lot like this horse who is an Amber Cream Champagne:


That's what I think she is.
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post #16 of 31 Old 05-20-2011, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momo3boys View Post
THe sire is Black, but his dad was a black Roan and his mom was a Sorrel. The mare is champagne (not sure which one). Her dad is a champagne but darker and I have no idea what her mom was but I am guessing she had champagne too because of the mare's coloring. What options should I put in on that color predictor website?
Stallion - Ee aa this is a black who is also able to produce the red gene. We know this because his dam was a sorrel. She could only throw ee. Because the stallion is black we know the agouti gene is aa (non agouti).

Now is the hard part. Assuming the mare is an Amber Champange with or without cream gene you know you are going to have a bay base. This will give you at least one E and one A. You also know you have at least one Ch gene.

So far you are strongest for Bay or Amber Champange - Ee Aa or EE (homozygous black) Aa.
Next is the black or Classic Champange which is black based - Ee aa or EE aa.
Finally the chestnut or the Gold Champange which is chestnut based - ee Aa or Ee Aa. Chestnut is available since the sire is aa.

If the creme gene is available this makes it more fun. With a bay base you'll have buckskin, black is smokey black and chestnut creates palomino.

So in reality.... without knowing the homozyogous of the champagne or if there is a creme gene homozygous or not...

You are guaranteed to have just about anything.

If you have the extra cash I recommend getting the champange and creme gene tested. I have all my broodmares tested to help my breeding decisions. Or you can just wait and see what arrives. Like my latest. I knew for certian the foal would be bay but only had a 50/50 chance for Appy marking... and I got them!!
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post #17 of 31 Old 05-20-2011, 11:42 AM
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Sorry but when I read my post I noticed a couple of errors... and unfortunatly ran past the editing time allowed so here is a repost with corrections...

Quote:
Originally Posted by momo3boys View Post
THe sire is Black, but his dad was a black Roan and his mom was a Sorrel. The mare is champagne (not sure which one). Her dad is a champagne but darker and I have no idea what her mom was but I am guessing she had champagne too because of the mare's coloring. What options should I put in on that color predictor website?
Stallion - Ee aa this is a black who is also able to produce the red gene. We know this because his dam was a sorrel. She could only throw ee. Because the stallion is black we know the agouti gene is aa (non agouti).

Now is the hard part. Assuming the mare is an Amber Champange with or without cream gene you know you are going to have a bay base. This will give you at least one E and one A. You also know you have at least one Ch gene.

So far you are strongest for Bay or Amber Champange - Ee Aa or EE (homozygous black) Aa.
Next is the black or Classic Champange which is black based - Ee aa or EE aa. This is assuming the mare is not AA.
Finally the chestnut or the Gold Champange which is chestnut based - ee Aa or ee AA. This is assuming the mare is not EE.
Either AA or EE will eliminate the possiblity of black or chestnut, in that order... both EE and AA will mean all you get is bay.
The Ch or champange gene will modify the base color which is black, bay, or chestnut. Same with the creme gene.

If the creme gene is available this makes it more fun. With a bay base you'll have buckskin, black is smokey black and chestnut creates palomino.

And if there is a silver gene...

So in reality.... without knowing the homozyogous of the champagne or if there is a creme gene homozygous or not...

You are guaranteed to have just about anything.

If you have the extra cash I recommend getting the champange and creme gene tested. I have all my broodmares tested to help my breeding decisions. Or you can just wait and see what arrives. Like my latest. I knew for certian the foal would be bay but only had a 50/50 chance for Appy marking... and I got them!!
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post #18 of 31 Old 05-23-2011, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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Crossover, your post has made me realize that my gelding (the sire's foal) is not really a 'true' black. He has a lot of 'red' points so that would make him a smoky black right? I'm assuming that gene would have to come from mom though otherwise the dad would have them too right? Can the Creme gene be recessive?
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post #19 of 31 Old 05-23-2011, 04:28 PM
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Smoky black looks no different than black. The "red" on him is probably just sunbleaching. The only way he could be smoky black is if he has a parent with the cream gene, but even then you'd have to test him for it.
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post #20 of 31 Old 05-23-2011, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momo3boys View Post
Crossover, your post has made me realize that my gelding (the sire's foal) is not really a 'true' black. He has a lot of 'red' points so that would make him a smoky black right? I'm assuming that gene would have to come from mom though otherwise the dad would have them too right? Can the Creme gene be recessive?
I agree with Poseidon. Its most likely sunbleaching. A fellow horseperson of mine said she noticed on her babies that the hetero blacks tended to bleach more reddish tone and the homo more of a tan/ yellow tone. Now if thats true for all... no clue, she's just saying what she has noticed over the years. She's a person who's opinion I value.
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