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Splash White & Overo Test results - Surprised!

4K views 24 replies 9 participants last post by  Surayya 
#1 ·
Started a new thread as the old one was from last yr :oops:

Got the test results for my filly just now & I'm a bit surprised at the results (aside from Tobiano) to be honest. :shock:

Overo Result:
N/N - No evidence for the altered sequence detected.

Sabino 1 Result:
N/N - No evidence of altered sequence detected.

Tobiano Result:
TO/TO - Two copies of altered sequence. Horse is homozygous for Tobiano. All offspring will inherit Tobiano.

Splashed White SW-1 Result:
N/N - No copies of SW-1 mutation.

Splashed White SW-2 Result:
N/N - No copies of SW-2 mutation.

Splashed White SW-3 Result:
N/N - No copies of SW-3 mutation.

Pic of filly



So I'm going to HAVE to do her life registration as Tobiano now- until proven otherwise, as As far as the Pinto society goes, if they test neg for all Overo genes they are Tobiano period (which isn't necessarily a bad thing tbh :wink: ), nor will the breeder want to test her stallion now either

So where to from here?

I've read somewhere that there is a lab/ geneticist (not sure which/who), that is taking those horse's results whom should be Splash White, yet have tested neg for it- (I remember someone saying this is what had been done with their own horse/s who tested neg) to be part of an on going study for more splash white patterns.
Is this a line worth pursuing?
If so where is that/who do I contact please?

After coming on here I'd been convinced she wasn't "just" Tobiano & well I still believe she isn't "just" tobiano, she has proven to be neg for ALL Overo patterns that can be tested for aside from DW (which I dont think she comes close to having), so that is what Im going to have to call her- a Tobiano :| Isnt it? :-?

I also have to pass on the info to her breeder (she's on the pinto society)- who was told categorically & convinced that my filly & her stallion were only tobiano (that all her horses were in that regard, so thats what she tested for) & my filly's blue eyes came from being a buckskin tobiano.

I hadn't managed to convince her breeder 100% other wise yet, but she was open to testing her stallion based on my filly's results, however these results wont help one bit with proving that Tobiano's dont have face white, as science has so far disproven it in her case :twisted:
 
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#7 ·
Whats the procedure for re-testing? Im in NZ so courier to USA is expensive!

The email says that if I have questions to email through VGL - which I will do when I get over being a stunned mullet!:shock::wink: It's just taken me totally off guard :oops:

Also was wondering if this has happened to anyone else & if so, what did they do?
 
#6 · (Edited)
I gotta say I was shocked when I read them! I still am TBH- she has to have Splash or Frame surely to have the blue eyes & lack of colour!?!?! :-o

Her Sire:


Her Dam:


Neither should be "just" Tobiano, yet that is all my filly has tested positive for- I'd have thought that if BOTH parents had additional Overo genes present (as both have white on their faces) at least one pattern would be testable :shock:
 
#8 ·
It looks like your filly could be a moderately expressed Sabino, but not of the type they can currently test for. I know MANY Arabians who are Sabino but they do not carry the testable Sabino 1 gene. Hoping as they do more research that these genes will have tests developed because there are many things we've yet to learn about.
 
#9 ·
The paper on splash made it clear that the geneticists involved believe there is more than three mutations that present as "splash". Testing negative for LWO AND splash with those blue eyes tells me for sure that she has an undiscovered splash gene. Sabino also has at least one more mutation they are yet to find, but I am yet to see anything that convinces me that sabino has anything to do with blue eyes.

With out a doubt, she is tobiano and splash. She has to be something more than tobiano for a start, with face white. I don't see sabino to be honest, I see splash. Blue eyes, bottom heavy face white, crisp and clean edges.
 
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#10 · (Edited)
Hmmm - I have to agree with you on Sabino- I thought maybe Sabino in the beginning when I 1st started my research into patterns, but now when I look at her I don't see Sabino at all (I only had that test done to cover my bases :p ). The lacing around her patches are from HZ Tobiano, as are the paw prints/cat tracks.

If she didnt have the bright blue eyes I wouldn't be so shocked that she came back neg to all Splash genes.

Yep, I read the paper with much interest & know they feel there are other Splash genes (I suppose I should be shocked my dare to be different baby, isn't going to be stuffed into nice neat categories so easily lol ;) )

As she was tested at USD & Ive been told its them who are holding back some horses who look Splash but test neg, should I ask them to do the same for her?
Is she Splash looking enough (stupid question I know, but she still has a shield & small flak patches left, even if those are caused by HZ Tobiano fighting to stay coloured)???

Thoughts please? :)

I've decided to email USD later tonight or early tomorrow, when I have my head wrapped around the current results :)

Is it worth having her re-tested? I thought USD would be fairly onto it & would have let me know if they felt the need to retest on account of the samples I sent them?
 
#14 ·
I wasn't even considering any roaning. I know the difference between roaning we see on some horses and a true roan. I was though, thinking of the ragged edges, which to me probably indicates some kind of sabino. Do I see a chin spot? Can't quite tell.

So to me anyway, I still think the mare shown, is tobiano, splash and sabino. The last two of types undefined yet or not available to us for testing.

In Gypsies, I think we have probably, many types of Sabino. Some have tested pos. for sb1. Others look like sb1 but quite well might be DW. I've only seen one, maybe two Gypsies, who were sb1 homozygous and they were white.

Lizzie.
 
#16 ·
I agree Poseidon. I do think there was a bit of a fight here, between sabino and splash. Sabino likes to cover the eyes with colour and splash doesn't, but drops colour off higher up on the face. Both seem to have had a bit of a win here.

Apart from sb1, I do know that several other types of sabino have been isolated and identified. However, they are not available to the public. Maybe one day.

And yes to the OP. We had a mis-identified colour result. We knew exactly what colours the stallion was, yet it came back as something we knew to be untrue. At our insistence, he company did redo it for us and it came back correctly.

I'm still not sure about blue eyes and sabino. I do know that hundreds - maybe thousands of Gypsies, who have one or two blue eyes and obviously or probably carry sabino. The same in Mini Horses.

Lizzie
 
#17 ·
I'm still not sure about blue eyes and sabino. I do know that hundreds - maybe thousands of Gypsies, who have one or two blue eyes and obviously or probably carry sabino. The same in Mini Horses.
And until they isolate EVERY type of splash, there is no way to know that those same horses don't have splash. We have proof already that splash can be present without white, as there is a few homozygous horses popping up that have completely solid parents (Gotlands IIRC).
 
#21 ·
Well - Im over the shock now lol :p

Haven't yet emailed USD, as I have only just got in the door & have yet to have anything to eat or drink today (its 5:10pm here) - so that's my next port of call now my babies have been taken care of ;)

I'll email them later tonight & ask if either retesting or adding her to the group of looks Splash horses, but hast tested positive, is the best idea - to me because she's not Frame (thank god lol), she HAS to be Splash - if she didn't have blue eyes, I probably wouldn't be so darn convinced she was Splash of some type.

Cynder has nothing other than the narrow halo/lacing edging her patches - this is common on Tobianos (I'm told), she doesn't have any roaning, roaning like your typical Sabino or Rabicano bleeding into in coloured areas- certainly none on either flank patch, nor the one chocolate spot on top of her quarters or on her shield.
The photos may be deceiving if it looks like there is roaning anywhere, as she is a Smoky Brown (is that the turn now being used for Seal Brown + Cream now??) & the photos were taken during Autumn when she was changing colour hues from lighter to darker for winter :) .

She does have a chin/lip spot tho


I'm looking at putting her in foal to the Lion Prince (he's quite a new import & is HZ Black & Tobiano, as well as a Splash of some kind (he hasnt been tested for it but he too has 2 stunningly bright blue eyes!) SO maybe her foal will turn out HZ unknown Splash yet lol).

I'm putting my Greying, Brown Roan to Prince (or Cracker Jack, Bay also Tobiano, Splash (again not tested, but has bright Blue eyes + I know most the horses in Jacks background all have bright blue eyes, as does his sire & dam!) this yr, so will be interesting to see what she throws colour/pattern wise ;)
I have my fingers & toes crossed for a Seal Brown, Roan, Tobiano, Splash with Blue eyes lol :p
 
#22 ·
I would use "smoky brown" to refer to a double dilute on a brown base. I usually say "brown buckskin" but most people will understand that, or "brownskin".
 
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#23 ·
I was thinking over the Brown terms the other day- I thinking
Brown= Seal Brown.
Brown + Cream= Smoky Brown (since they tend to have exaggerated tan appearance like Smoky blacks)
Brown + 2cream = Tawny or something along those lines as it'd make life easier.

Most people here that know about Brown use Seal then smoky as smoky brown implies a buckskin looking horse- esp given we already have Smoky Blacks & a double dilute never looks 'brown' lol
 
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