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Sun bleaching in black tails...is it genetic?

12K views 40 replies 11 participants last post by  Rcatheron 
#1 ·
My buckskin mare always gets super sun bleached orange fried streaks in her tail. But another horse in the barn who is a bay has a jet black tail that never bleaches out even though they both get the same amount of turnout every day in the sun!

I always thought that buckskin was just a bay with the cream gene so why would my horse's tail bleach so much more? Could the fact that my mare's sire is a chestnut have anything to do with it? Just curious and looking to learn something new I guess! :)
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#2 ·
Do you use a lot of fly spray on her? That bleaches a lot.

It might be some affect of cream because my mare's tail is bright orange at the end and is much ligher black on everything that exposed to the sun (down underneath, it's a really dark blue-black).



That was from a couple months ago, so her tail has gotten worse. No worries for me, because we don't have to look presentable for anything. However, I know you show, so you could dye it if you wanted.
 
#4 ·
"My" buckskin (now my mother's) has about 5 different colours in her tail! Black, of course, but also white, gold, red and cream. I was advised not to dye her tail, because all the different colours in it are supposedly sought-after... I guess because you can't put a false tail in and have it look natural? Hers is REALLY thick and because of all the different colours nobody can question that it's natural.

Sunbleaching, on the other hand, I haven't really experienced all that much. My bay's mane bleaches a bit, but not his tail so much. And my chestnut's mane/tail are really cool, she's got some sort of sooty/flaxen combination going on where she's got everything from nearly white to nearly black in her mane... and her tail is nearly black in the middle, but bright red chestnut at the top and bottom.
 
#6 ·
Yeah, well THIS is what my mare's poor black tail looks like mid-summer! In winter, it looks like the bay's BLACK tail that is standing next to her...


When I dyed it, THIS is what it looked like :) Doesn't last long though!
 
#7 ·
Could try a tailbag or tail saver? Tail savers are strips of fabric that you braid into the horse's tail to keep it clean and tangle-free, and to keep the sun off. Tail bags aren't as effective but they go from the very top of the tail down, whereas a tail saver has to be put on below the dock or else it runs the risk of cutting off the circulation, especially if they get it caught.
 
#8 ·
Yeah I have tried doing those strips of material, it looked super cool BUT then the hair above the bottom of the dock that hadn't been braided in became a giant ball of tangled matted MESS after a couple of days of her swishing at the flies :shock: So that was a no-go. I have a long tail bag that can be velcroed through the top of the braid so that she still has a long tail-like item to swat at flies with, but it doesn't cover the top part where most of the sun bleaching occurs.

Are there long tail bags that tie somehow into the very top of the tail? I want her to still have something to swat flies with, since she does get turned out all day...and I would rather deal with an orange tail and give her turnout all day versus keeping her penned up for the sake of beauty...because above all, she works hard for me and needs her "horsey time"! :)
 
#10 ·
Does she wear a rug? You can get tail bags that velcro into the rug. Usually cotton ones, for use with cotton rugs, but I use a cotton underneath my winter rugs so it doesn't really matter... you can also get canvas ones, but I haven't found a waterproof rug yet that came with the velcro attachment already on it.
 
#11 ·
No, she'd be too hot...she gets sweaty really easily so I can't even have her in a fly sheet, she would be so sweaty! And with the summer we've been having so far, this heat has been unusually BRUTAL here!!! Ohio normally has averages in the low-mid 80's in the summer, with a day here or there that reaches into the low 90's. But THIS year, it's been constant 90's and NO rain, we're having serious drought issues!!!
 
#12 ·
Hmm, and sweat bleaches them worse than sunlight... my gelding's coat goes rank if he gets too hot in summer.

Unfortunately I can't think of anything to prevent the bleaching other than stabling her, which you've already said you don't want to do. Seems to me you'll just have to keep dyeing it, or else learn to love the orange.
 
#13 ·
Yeah that was the plan ;-) I was just interested in the cause of the sun bleaching in my buckskin mare that does NOT occur with some other horses (there's a tri color Paint with a black tail at the barn whose tail stays JET black, along with all the bays!)

They are all turned out as much as my girl, and yet their tails stay very black. So I was interested to see what would cause that...I have even known other buckskins this did NOT happen to. Which is why I was wondering if her chestnut sire's genetic influence could cause that?
 
#17 ·
lol it is isn't it! But I bet there's some gene that causes some horses to fade more than others, and it would be awesome if we could breed away from it and have fewer faded blacks about. And less bleaching in our bays and buckskins.

edit; and chestnuts... my chestnut's coat is feral at the moment, all orange from the bleaching D: (she is shedding through darker, and I'm hoping I can darken her some more)
 
#18 ·
Ok I know this thread of mine is old, but I'm still interested in it and no one really knew the answer for certain! Soooo now it's one summer later and her tail is bleaching again as usual...and there is another buckskin at our barn who goes out the exact same amount of time, uses the same amount of fly spray, and doesn't wear a sheet either, so same thing with both her buckskin and mine. But hers has a jet black tail with NO sun bleaching whatsoever in it, while mine looks like this...
 
#20 ·
Urine also bleaches the tail out. When they urinate and swat flies at the same time - urine gets everywhere. I have a black and a red dun with black tails. I rinse the tails after a workout when I rinse the sweat off.
I thought about that too, because she is a mare and my friend's buckskin is a gelding so maybe it's in the way they urinate?? However, I noticed her forelock and mane, although not as bad as her tail, bleach a bit too and his don't at all. And most of her bleaching is on top of the tail and where she pees on it (the underside) it's still jet black. So I'm pretty certain it's the sun doing it...I just don't know why my buckskin would bleach so badly and the other buckskin doesn't at all! :-| **scratches head**:think:
 
#22 ·
My bay didn't have a problem with 'sun bleaching' until we came to the US - we don't get as much really bright sun in the UK
None of my others are affected though
There a link between copper deficiency and sun bleaching?
Balanced Equine Nutrition - Link between minerals and coat bleaching
Could this affect only certain horses in a group that all graze together?
 
#23 ·
My bay didn't have a problem with 'sun bleaching' until we came to the US - we don't get as much really bright sun in the UK
None of my others are affected though
There a link between copper deficiency and sun bleaching?
Balanced Equine Nutrition - Link between minerals and coat bleaching
Could this affect only certain horses in a group that all graze together?
Interesting, thanks for the article! And I finally just caved and dyed it! :lol: Looks much better now though!
 

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#26 ·
Hmm good point...she is on a mix of these 2 grains at the barn where I board - I think 1/2 and 1/2...

Essential K® Horse Supplement


GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
Crude Protein (Min.) ...................................................................28.0%
Lysine (Min.) ................................................................................2.2%
Methionine (Min.).........................................................................0.6%
Methionine & Cystine (Min.) ........................................................1.0%
Threonine (Min.)...........................................................................1.2%
Crude Fat (Min.) ...........................................................................6.0%
Crude Fiber (Max.)........................................................................5.0%
Calcium (Ca) (Min.)......................................................................2.5%
Calcium (Ca) (Max.) .....................................................................3.5%
Phosphorus (P) (Min.) ...................................................................1.5%
Copper (Cu) (Min.) .................................................................200 ppm
Zinc (Zn) (Min.)......................................................................400 ppm
Selenium (Se) (Min.)................................................................1.5 ppm
Potassium (K) (Min.).....................................................................1.5%
Magnesium (Mg) (Min.)................................................................0.4%
Manganese (Mn) (Min.) ..........................................................240 ppm
Cobalt (Co) (Min.) ......................................................................4 ppm
Iron (Fe) (Min.).......................................................................900 ppm
Iodine (I) (Min.) ..........................................................................4 ppm
Salt (NaCl) (Min.) .........................................................................1.0%
Salt (NaCl) (Max.) ........................................................................1.5%
Vitamin A (Min.) .............................................................30,000 IU/lb.
Vitamin D (Min.) ...............................................................2,500 IU/lb.
Vitamin E (Min.)...................................................................500 IU/lb.
Vitamin C (Min.)....................................................................80 mg/lb.
Biotin (Min.) .........................................................................2.4 mg/lb.
Thiamine (Min.).....................................................................30 mg/lb.
Riboflavin (Min.) ..................................................................8.5 mg/lb.
Omega 6 Fatty Acids (Min.)..........................................................3.0%
Omega 3Fatty Acids (Min.)...........................................................0.4%

Kalm

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
Crude Protein (Min.)....................................................... 14.0%
Lysine (Min.).................................................................. 0.75%
Methionine (Min.) .......................................................... 0.22%
Methionine & Cystine (Min.).......................................... 0.50%
Threonine (Min.) ............................................................ 0.50%
Crude Fat (Min.)............................................................... 8.0%
Crude Fiber (Max.)......................................................... 20.0%
Calcium (Ca) (Min.) ......................................................... 0.8%
Calcium (Ca) (Max.)......................................................... 1.3%
Phosphorus (P) (Min.) .................................................... 0.60%
Copper (Cu) (Min.)....................................................... 65 ppm
Zinc (Zn) (Min.) ..........................................................200 ppm
Selenium (Se) (Min.) ....................................................0.6 ppm
Potassium (K) (Min.)........................................................ 1.0%
Magnesium (Mg) (Min.)................................................. 0.35%
Manganese (Mn) (Min.)...............................................160 ppm
Cobalt (Co) (Min.)........................................................1.3 ppm
Iron (Fe) (Min.) ...........................................................440 ppm
Iodine (I) (Min.)............................................................1.1 ppm
Salt (NaCl) (Min.)............................................................. 0.5%
Salt (NaCl) (Max.)............................................................ 1.0%
Vitamin A (Min.)................................................... 5,500 IU/lb.
Vitamin D (Min.)...................................................... 500 IU/lb.
Vitamin E (Min.) ...................................................... 200 IU/lb.
Vitamin C (Min.) ....................................................... 25 mg/lb.
Biotin (Min.)............................................................. 0.7 mg/lb.
Thiamine (Min.) ....................................................... 8.5 mg/lb.
Riboflavin (Min.)...................................................... 4.5 mg/lb.
Omega 6 Fatty Acids (Min.) ............................................. 2.8%
Omega 3 Fatty Acids (Min.) ............................................. 0.3%

 
#27 ·
I just sent a note to my trainer/barn manager asking how much of each feed Sandie eats per day, so that I can figure out exactly how much of each mineral she's already getting.

She also gets 5-6 flakes of good quality Timothy/Orchard mix hay per day and goes out on grass pasture for 1-2 hours per day as well.
 
#28 ·
Scratch that, he just got back to me and she's on 4 1/2 lbs/day of Tribute Right Choice 14% pelleted feed...

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
Crude Protein (Min.).................................................. 14.0%
Lysine (Min.)............................................................... 0.8%
Methionine (Min.) ....................................................... 0.3%
Methionine & Cystine (Min.) ...................................... 0.5%
Threonine (Min.) ......................................................... 0.5%
Crude Fat (Min.).......................................................... 7.0%
Crude Fiber (Max.) .................................................... 18.0%
Calcium (Ca) (Min.) .................................................... 0.7%
Calcium (Ca) (Max.).................................................... 1.2%
Phosphorus (P) (Min.) ................................................. 0.6%
Copper (Cu) (Min.).................................................. 50 ppm
Zinc (Zn) (Min.) .................................................... 160 ppm
Selenium (Se) (Min.) .............................................. 0.6 ppm
Potassium (K) (Min.)................................................... 0.7%
Magnesium (Mg) (Min.).............................................. 0.2%
Manganese (Mn) (Min.)......................................... 100 ppm
Cobalt (Co) (Min.).................................................. 3.5 ppm
Iron (Fe) (Min.) ..................................................... 200 ppm
Iodine (I) (Min.)...................................................... 1.1 ppm
Salt (NaCl) (Min.)........................................................ 0.5%
Salt (NaCl) (Max.)....................................................... 1.0%
Vitamin A (Min.).............................................. 3,500 IU/lb.
Vitamin D (Min.)................................................. 350 IU/lb.
Vitamin E (Min.) ................................................. 100 IU/lb.
Vitamin C (Min.) .................................................. 12 mg/lb.
Biotin (Min.)....................................................... 0. 5 mg/lb.
Thiamine (Min.) ..................................................... 5 mg/lb.
Riboflavin (Min.).................................................... 4 mg/lb.
Omega 6 Fatty Acids (Min.) ........................................ 1.7%
Omega 3 Fatty Acids (Min.) ........................................ 0.2%
Lactobacillus acidophilus (Min.).............. 113.5 milCFU/lb
Lactobacillus casei (Min.) ........................ 113.5 milCFU/lb
Bifidobacterium thermophilum (Min.) ...... 113.5milCFU/lb
Enteroococcus faecium (Min.) ................. 113.5 milCFU/lb
 
#29 ·
So if she gets 4 1/2 lbs of this feed per day (if I am doing the conversion correctly!) she gets around 100 mg of copper per day and 325 mg of zinc per day? That seems awful high, when the websites I found recommended that a 1,300 lb horse (which she is NOT, she's more like 800-900, she is only 14.2hh) should get 60-90 mg of copper per day and only 40 mg/kg of zinc.

Then in addition, I read that higher zinc:copper ratios can cause problems...and this feed has a 160mg:50mg zinc:copper ratio, so that doesn't sound good? But why would they make a feed like that if it wasn't a good idea? Hmm, this opens up a whole new book of nutritional research for me! :lol:
 
#30 ·
I don't have time to go through the maths on that - whats the recommended daily feeding amount for that product?
It always worries me that its so easy to over feed these mineral and vitamins - a lot wont hurt as they just get excreted but some can be harmful or upset the balance which could be whats happening.
You should probably go through it all and make a table of exactly how much is coming from the feed in terms of minerals and vitamins because some will also come naturally from the hay and grass.
 
#31 ·
You can't tell if your horse's mineral ratios are balanced just from the hard feed- they eat way more hay/grass than anything else, so unless you know if those minerals are balanced in the forage, it's impossible to say if a hard feed is providing too much or too little of anything, especially in relation to other minerals.
 
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