True white horse
   

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True white horse

This is a discussion on True white horse within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Are albino horses considered white?
  • White horse blue eyes

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    02-20-2013, 04:02 PM
  #1
Weanling
True white horse

I know albino horses are near impossible to produce. If they do live to term, it's for no longer than 48 hours because the same gene causes the failure of an organ to fully develop (somewhere in the gastrointestinal tract). Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I remember.

What genes cause a 'true white' horse? What is the difference between a true white and albino?

Also, I am somewhat familiar with perlinos and creamellos, but how are they different from true whites? Most that I've seen are a creamy color, but some are definitely white. How do you know the difference between one of those and a true white?

Here are two pictures I have come across on a 'true white' horse that isn't supposed to be white at all. What would make that happen?



     
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    02-20-2013, 04:30 PM
  #2
Green Broke
The gene for albino doesn't exist in horses. For a horse to be an albino it would have to have pink eyes, among other things. The horses in the pictures have brown/blue eyes.

That's all I know on color so someone else will chime in for the rest!
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    02-20-2013, 04:42 PM
  #3
Trained
The foals that don't live to term or only live for 48 hours are called LWOS foals. This stands for Lethal White Overo Syndrome. These foals are from the mating of two horses who are have the frame gene. It has nothing to do with albinism.

Cremellos and perlinos are the product of two horses who carry the cream gene (palominos, buckskins, smoky blacks, etc) and are called double dilutes. Two copies of the cream gene equals a cremello or perlino, depending on the base coat color. The shade that the double dilute horse appears to be depends on other genetics expressions (same as why chestnuts are different shades).
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    02-20-2013, 04:46 PM
  #4
Weanling
Dominant white - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are a group of genes called Dominant White that can cause anything from white spotting to an entirely white horse. The horse will have pink skin, white fur and dark eyes. This is not albinoism as evidenced by the lack of pink eyes. Albinoism, to my knowledge, has never been found in horses. The gene that causes the foals to die within 48 hours is the frame gene in homozygous form.

The difference between a cremello and a dominant white horse is the genes at play. A cremello/perlino/smoky cream is the result of two copies of the cream gene diluting the base coat colour. A dominant white horse can be born any colour and then, much like with grey horses, white-out as it grows. The difference is the genes that cause the colour change. As well, grey horses have dark pigmented skin, dominant whites have pink skin.
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    02-20-2013, 04:58 PM
  #5
Green Broke
White horses are the result of another (or multiple) gene acting upon their true color. Horses have a base color of red or black. Then the other dilutes come into play to give us the variety of coat colors that we see.

So where you see a "white" horse, you're actually looking at a red or black base colored horse with several other color genes acting upon it. Such as sabino, splash, tobiano, or overo. These genes expressed in their maximum form can make a horse look completely white.

The cream gene acts on both base color horses, but will be expressed differently depending on if it is homozygous (2 copies) or heterozygous (1 copy). A cremello is the result of a chestnut with homozygous cream. A perlino is a bay with homozygous cream.

Frame overo in it's homozygous form is lethal for the foal carrying it. This is why you must never breed two frame carrier together. Frame is a dominant gene and will create a homozygous foal aka a dead foal.

There is also dominant white, which I do not know much about. I believe that it cannot be homozygous or it will terminate in embryo. Dominant white causes de-pigmentation of the skin and hair. I think they are the only horses considered to be 'true white' but I could be wrong.
     
    02-20-2013, 05:24 PM
  #6
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalter    
I know albino horses are near impossible to produce. Not near. Are impossible. Albino horses do not exist. If they do live to term, it's for no longer than 48 hours because the same gene causes the failure of an organ to fully develop (somewhere in the gastrointestinal tract). Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I remember. That is a completely different gene from albino. What you are thinking of is frame overo, where when heterozygous (OO) a foal does not develop a complete digestive tract.

What genes cause a 'true white' horse? What is the difference between a true white and albino? Albinos of any animal have pink skin and pink eyes (caused by depigmentation - the pink coloring of the eye is really you being able to see the capillaries and vessels in the eye. True white doesn't really exist in horses either, unless you want to count Dominant White which is a pink-skinned, white-haired, brown-eyed horse.

Also, I am somewhat familiar with perlinos and creamellos, but how are they different from true whites? Perlino is two cream genes diluting a bay/brown horse - cremello is two cream genes diluting a chestnut horse. They are not white, but very very light colored. Most that I've seen are a creamy color, but some are definitely white. How do you know the difference between one of those and a true white? The only horse I would consider "true white" would be Dominant White, but even that's a stretch because Dominant White doesn't always cause all-white horses.
Yeah, pretty much what everyone else said.
     
    02-20-2013, 09:29 PM
  #7
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno Bay    
Yeah, pretty much what everyone else said.
Thanks everyone. Never claimed to be an expert in genetics haha. Still trying to figure it out. Apparently the information I was given was way off lmao.
     
    02-20-2013, 09:31 PM
  #8
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalter    
Thanks everyone. Never claimed to be an expert in genetics haha. Still trying to figure it out. Apparently the information I was given was way off lmao.
Unfortunately, a lot of what people are given as the "gospel truth" regarding horse colors/genetics is antiquated and incorrect.
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    02-21-2013, 04:13 AM
  #9
Foal
Off-topic but that Thoroughbred (?) would scare the holy freck out of me if I had to go out into the pasture at night.
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    02-21-2013, 09:45 AM
  #10
Started
Palomino = sorrel base 1 cream gene.
Cremello = sorrel base 2 cream genes. Appears light to creamy gold and blue eyes.


Buckskin = bay (agouiti) base 1 cream gene.
Perlino = bay (agouiti) base 2 cream genes. Also creamy gold color but black legs, mane, tail, are darker often orangey color. Cream does not dilute black pigment well. Also has the blue eyes.


Smokey black = black horse and 1 cream gene. No visible effect except horse may sunfade more.
Smokey cream = black horse with two cream genes. A lot that I have seen have an orangey hue about them.


Dominant white and sabino are two very similar genes which have similar genetic origins. It can sometimes be hard to tell the difference between the two unless genetic testing is done. Both these genes can cause a horse to be all white or nearly white to roan-like patches on the body. I do know that sabino likes to keep pigment around the eyes even if the horse is all white or has another white pattern there, this gives the eyeliner around the eyes. This is my max sabino pepper. He is almost completely white except for the inside of his ears. The outside of his ears, his neck, chest, shoulders, and hindquarters have red ticking and any where that pigmented hair is comes with black skin. Pepper is mostly pink skined except where the ticking is which has mottled black spots. This often confuses people and many max sabino's are mistaken as Appaloosas. Notice that the gene does not remove colored hair from the inner ear. Pepper was born a Medicine Hat paint.





Now max sabino's and dominant whites can have blue eyes as well. Blue eyes are caused by being a double dilute (2 cream) and frame and splash white genes. Frame in his homozygous form = 100% death. Horses with frame or splashed white don't have to have blue eyes though but they have the possibily when inherited in the womb. Now your probably well they can all have blue eyes. In my experience double dilutes blue eye and paint blue eyes have a different hue to them. I'll try to get a visual for you.


Typical jagged horizontal irregular frame markings.


The smooth dipped in paint looking splash markings.


Let me know if I'm wrong somewhere or missed anything.
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