what color should this guy be registered as (appy)?

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what color should this guy be registered as (appy)?

This is a discussion on what color should this guy be registered as (appy)? within the Horse Colors and Genetics forums, part of the Horse Breeds, Breeding, and Genetics category
  • Appy varnish
  • Do grey appys turn white

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    04-08-2011, 04:33 PM
what color should this guy be registered as (appy)?

Based on comments/posted in another thread i'm starting this here to not "threadjack" the other one.

I'm a bit unclear on grey or roan for appys. Here are both of my colt's parents - unfortunately the pics are a few years old so don't factor any conformation critique into this! Haha



Koda @ birth:

Koda @ 3mths:

Koda @ 8mths:

Koda @ 10mths:

Now... what would I mark on his registration papers for color then? Would he be a bay, bay roan or grey? Ugh this is confusing. Any help/thoughts are appreciated.

For reference, if it's helpful to anyone, here is the registration form with all the color options on the second page (scroll down )

(this is my first thread start so I hope I got it right )
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    04-08-2011, 04:43 PM
Do you have a current full body picture of his dam?
    04-08-2011, 06:08 PM
I've requested current pics of both the sire and dam from the breeder and will post them as soon as I get them. *fingers crossed*
    04-08-2011, 06:37 PM
Oh fingers crossed. I only asked for new/recent pictures as she looks so very much lighter (read grey!) in the newborn pictures. My gut feeling is that he is grey. More so since he was born an "adult" color, I.e. His points were black instead of the normal foal mousy color. Also the way the white is coming in on his face is indicative of grey and not varnish. Varnish tends to leave color on the bony parts, grey takes it all.
    04-08-2011, 08:07 PM
Man this stuff confuses me! For instance my appy mare was registered as chestnut but she was basically a silvery leopard when I got her at age 8/9.

Berry's registration pic:

Berry @ 13/14:

Can you tell me (or is there a fun website about this) how the colors work - the grey and roan and varnish?
    04-08-2011, 08:31 PM
It can be tough to tell the difference between varnish roan and grey at times. As ND said, varnish tends to leave colour on the bony parts - face, shoulders, hips. Varnish can often 'uncover' spots - as is the case with your girl Crimson.

Grey will never uncover spots. The WHOLE horse will eventually turn white, spots and all. As also pointed out by ND, there are several indicators of grey that MAY be present in a newborn - adult colouring is a good one, and goggles around the eyes too. Koda didn't have goggles, but did have the clear adult colouring.

Roan changes seasonally, but the horse will never go white. Roan has points like a bay - the head and legs will be a more solid colour. This usually isn't the case with varnish, it tends to roan the whole horse.

ND can probably add more - I am definitely not great with appy markings
    04-08-2011, 08:32 PM
More bay then the rest...
    04-08-2011, 08:32 PM
Grey wipes out all color, no matter what the base pattern or color is.

True roan does not change. It also has a solid head and legs (very rare cases roan does encorach on the head and legs).

Varnish... Well varnish also takes the color and replaces it with white, but it doesn't erase it. Varnish will take the base color away, but leave spots (like on your mare). Varnish will also only leave color on the boney (i.e. Legs, jaw bones, nasal bones, etc.). It can eventually take the color from those places, but that is the last place it disappears from.

Here is a slide show of my varnish roan appy (click to view) approximate dates on the header of the slide show.
    04-08-2011, 08:34 PM
Lol you were answering Chiilaa while I was digging up my slide show.
    04-08-2011, 09:51 PM
Oh ho! Ok so my mare was a varnish then? Interesting. Color and genetics are so fascinating to me.

So you guys think that koda will end up grey and will, at some point, "lose" the spots? That's kinda sad. Do many appys go grey in that way? Having this extra information you've posted, i'd have to say that the majority of appys i've dealt with were varnish with a few more "solid" specimens (as in bay with blanket, etc.).

Eeps! I wish he'd shed the winter fuzz so I can at least see what he looks like now. Do you think if I sent in his pictures as he currently looks (i'll take new ones tomorrow for your review), and marked his paperwork as being grey, that they'd accept it?

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