What colour is she?? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 32 Old 07-04-2012, 07:40 AM
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Nope lol. Black and brown are on different loci (meaning they are different genes).

Black and red are together - Ee and EE are black horses, ee is a red horse (chestnut)

Bay and brown are agouti mutations - A is bay, At is brown. Agouti doesn't act on a red horse, but can be carried by a red. It is dominant, so only needs one copy to be expressed.

Cream is again on a different locus. Crcr is a single dilute, CrCr is double. It depends on the coat colour that the cream has to act on as to what colour the horse is.

So theoretically, we can narrow down the sire's genes a bit - he has to be ee Crcr as he is palomino. A palomino is a red horse with a single cream gene, which makes it nice and easy to figure out those genes. He could be carrying bay or brown, but we wouldn't know as it won't act on his red based coat. We do know, however, that he only has one of these genes maximum, as the foal has a black base with no agouti. So the sire must have a recessive agouti gene, and we can say that he is a? Because we don't know what the other gene is.

Mumma is somewhat harder. We know she has at least one black gene, as she is a black base herself. However, we can't tell if she is carrying one or two black genes. So we put her down as E?. Agouti she has to have one (provided I am right about her being brown), but not two, as she can't have passed one on to her foal. So she is Ata. She doesn't have a cream gene (although there is a slight chance she could be smoky black, but I doubt it very much in this case).

So daddy - ee Crcr a?
Mumma - E? Crcr Ata

The possible combinations from this mating look complicated, but really aren't. Most people assume that an unknown part is heterozygous, just to give complete coverage of possible outcomes. So Ee x ee means 50% of the foals will be red based (chestnut) and 50% will be black based (black, bay, brown). Crcr x crcr means half of the foals will be single dilutes (palomino, buckskin, brown buckskin, smoky black) and 50% won't be diluted at all (chestnut, bay, brown, black). Ata x Aa is the most complex - 25% will be non agouti carriers (black on a black base, chestnut not carrying agouti on red base), 25% will be bay carrying non-agouti, 25% will be bay carrying brown, and 25% will be brown carrying non-agouti*.

Ok, novel finished lol.

*This is the theory currently on agouti dominance, but it is just a theory and not proved yet :)
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post #12 of 32 Old 07-04-2012, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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WOW I had to read that through a few times to get it to all sink in but I think I understand it all so bubba is definitely a black or smoky black and mumma is black or brown! Thankyou for your help and all the great information
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post #13 of 32 Old 07-25-2012, 03:41 AM Thread Starter
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A few more pics of foal now losing his coat.....
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File Type: jpg July 24th 2012 (61).jpg (52.2 KB, 118 views)
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post #14 of 32 Old 07-25-2012, 09:18 AM
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OMG that picture of the hairy pony with the sleepy kitty. SO ADORABLE.


On another note, I wonder if one day genetics researchers will discover that the fading black and non fading black are genetically different. Perhaps they have some mutation that has not been identified.... that will one day make answering questions like this much easier. Genes and mutations are being discovered and identified all the time!
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post #15 of 32 Old 07-27-2012, 04:11 AM Thread Starter
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Looking very brown as he's changing colour, do you think he's "black" still?? Or is he going to be "brown" ?
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post #16 of 32 Old 07-27-2012, 04:25 AM
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Based on his baby pictures, I was very confident that he was black or smoky black. The recent photos did start to make me doubt it, but I will hesitate before saying I was wrong. Foal shedding can be fun, and if he is smoky like I think he is, he may do all sorts of queer things.

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post #17 of 32 Old 07-27-2012, 05:09 AM Thread Starter
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so i'll wait for lots more fun changes before we see what he settles on
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post #18 of 32 Old 07-27-2012, 02:44 PM
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I can say with 100% certainty that he carries the adorable gene. That's Ad or ad...=D

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post #19 of 32 Old 07-27-2012, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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ha ha he definitely does
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post #20 of 32 Old 07-28-2012, 01:48 AM
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They both look brown to me. How cute!!
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