Yup, both are smokey browns, or brown based buckskin if you will.
IMO, sooty only expresses on a red base. Every bay horse, or a dilution of bay that i've been around that people have called sooty that i've had a chance to test comes back brown, not bay.
That's why on these 'sooty buckskins' the areas that have been lightened by cream are the same areas that would be a bit lighter on a brown, lighter flanks, back of the butt, around the face, inside of the legs etc.
Yup, both are smokey browns, or brown based buckskin if you will.
IMO, sooty only expresses on a red base. Every bay horse, or a dilution of bay that i've been around that people have called sooty that i've had a chance to test comes back brown, not bay.
That's why on these 'sooty buckskins' the areas that have been lightened by cream are the same areas that would be a bit lighter on a brown, lighter flanks, back of the butt, around the face, inside of the legs etc.
That horse is absolutely not dun. Dun is a completely separate dilution. It's a brown agouti instead of bay agouti plus cream. I also highly doubt this horse is sooty. Posted via Mobile Device
All colours can dapple Dapples on a dun tend to be muted though, since the way dun dilutes the colour is by rearranging where the pigment goes on the hair shaft. That's why they have a flat tone to them.
Alison, just a heads up in case you haven't used pinterest before. When you "pin" a picture, you write your own description for the picture you are pinning. So If I wanted to call this horse "burnt peaches colour", then pinterest would let me do that.
^ It all depends on what you think of as brown and sooty bay. As I stated before, I personally have not ever seen a 'sooty' bay horse not test brown. IMO he's pretty classic smokey brown.
BTW your ask.com link shows up as non existent. I wouldn't exactly take pinterest advice on color genetics either. Lots of people call smokey browns buckskin, same as lots of people still call dominant white sabino and have no idea what pearl is. It doesn't make smokey brown. dominant white or pearl not exist though.
Heck so few people know about brown dilutes there isn't even a name for a brown double dilute besides what small circles are calling it.
I'm getting sidetracked, as I can't test him I went off searching. This lovely mare is very similar to him, besides being a bit darker overall. You can see that she has the same areas that have been darkened and the same areas that are lighter. She is a tested smokey brown.
I'm not saying sooty doesn't exist I just think it's another thing restricted to red based horses.
IMO, once you look at enough horses that have been tested and your eye is trained there is a huge difference in phenotype between a buckskin and smokey brown. Just because it's called something by the masses doesn't make it so. People used to not even know that brown was different from bay.
For example what pattern would you call this horse?
I know I have been doubting if sooty has any expression on a black based horse too. Every horse I have seen that is "sooty bay" that has been tested, turns out to be brown. Additionally, why is it we accept that sooty "looks like soot has been dumped on the horse", but that it only does that on black based horses. Red based horses don't have any "rule" about sooty.
I'm the kind of person who always gives a $5 answer to a 20c question lol.
Let's compare these pictures. I made a screen grab of the top images when I searched Google for "sooty horse".
The first picture, I have left only the black based horses that are being described as "sooty". As you can see, the "sooty" expression on a black based horse tends to be also what the normal expression of "brown" is - black hard points (legs, mane tail etc), paler soft points (corner of the lip, around the eye, in the flank and so on) and varying shade of brown or black on the rest of the coat. We have several different black based colours here to see - there are browns, brown based buckskins, even a silver - and yet the expression of this "sooty" remains consistent despite this. IMO, sooty is not here, it is just varying expression of brown with some of them having other modifiers too.
Now, this second picture is the red based horses from the same search, with the black based horses blanked out. Here we can see huge range in the expression of sooty - some are on the legs, some on one area of the body, some on the mane alone. This is sooty.
I can't find any link. The photo is from pinterest, but no one has given any credit to either the photographer or the horse. And because it has been uploaded directly to pinterest, it can't be traced from there to its original source :-(
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